.Caucus Room, Russell Senate Office Building
[00.23.53-GURNEY continues to question DEAN, trying to make DEAN out as responsible for trying to enlist the CIA in the coverup]
Senator GURNEY. Then why did you try to involve the CIA in this?
Mr. DEAN. What I was beginning to explain is -what had come up was there was a suggestion that these men could have been past. operatives There is a lot, more known about these men today than was known at that time.
This -was looked at as a potential -way to deal with the situation that they were going to meet. They were asking for support,
Senator GURNEY. 'This was a good coverup story.
Mr. DEAN. Absolutely.
[00.24.23-for GURNEY, the simple answer is sufficient]
Senator GURNEY. That is all I am trying to find out, that you tried to involve the CIA--
Mr. DEAN. I am trying to explain.
Senator GURNEY. [continuing]. Knowing that they had nothing to do with it, in order to try to cover up.
Mr., DEAN. Well, I knew that, after he had made it clear to the best of his knowledge that they did not have a, problem, it was sort of a hope that, this would be a solution, It was not a solution, I continued to pursue it, with them, asking If in fact, there, was anything they could do.
Senator GURNEY. All of this is really in preparation for my next question. Did you ever advise the President of the United States that somebody was trying to involve the CIA in this coverup proposition?
Mr. DEAN. No, sir; 'Mr. Ehrlichman was quite aware I was meeting, because he had instructed me to meet. That was my reporting channel.
[00.25.09-GURNEY turns to the issue of payoffs to the defendants for silence]
Senator GURNEY. Now let's turn to Mr. Kalmbach if we can and the beginning of the silence operation, the paying off of the people in Watergate. Could -you tell us briefly how this came up? I know we have discussed it before, hut- could you summarize, exactly -what Went on?
Mr. DEAN, As I have explained, I would carry a, message, for example -when Mr. Haldeman and Mr. Ehrlichman agreed that to involve the CIA would he a very bad idea. I took this information back to the reelection committee. They then said, well, We, have to do something. As I have testified, the discussion was, well, we need Herb Kalmbach.
Well, they knew that there was, nothing they could say that could get Mr. Kalmbach going. They knew there was noting I could say that would get Mr. Kalmbach going. So I was asked to go back to Mr. Haldeman and Mr. Ehrlichman to see I if they would agree to this procedure. which they did. Then I conveyed the message to Mr. Kalmbach.
Senator GURNEY. Now what, happened?
Mr. DEAN. Mr. Kalmbach flow back Fast and I told Mr. Kalmbach why he had come back East.
Senator GURNEY. What day was this?
Mr. DEAN. I believe it. was on the 29th.
Senator GURNEY. Where did you meet,?
Mr. DEAN. We Met, in the Mayflower Hotel, in the coffee shop initially, but the coffee shop is too 'busy and we could find no privacy. SO we went to his room.
Senator GURNEY. What did you discuss?
[00.26.47-DEAN tells how KALMBACH was enlisted to raise the hush money, and that it was motivated to protect EHRLICHMAN against HUNT'S revelations]
Mr. DEAN. I told him--I was very open -with Mr. Kalmbach about the situation. I knew he, didn't, -want, to get involved, but I told him What I knew I told him that I had I learned that files had been destroyed that were, apparently quite incriminating for 'Mr. Haldeman.
Senator GURNEY. Now, now. let's proceed carefully here.
Mr. DEAN. Yes, sir.
Senator GURNEY. Are you sure You told him that?
Mr. DEAN. Well. I told him--what I told him is that I had conveyed to him----
Senator GURNEY. Why would he be interested in that ?
Mr. DEAN. I will tell you -why he would be interested in that.
Senator GURNEY. Why would you be interested in telling him?
Mr. DEAN. I would be interested in telling him because at that point in time, I was very concerned that this thing might lead directly to the President of the United States and that was, the seriousness of his being involved.
Senator GURNEY. Well, what did you tell him that you needed him for, to raise money for what? That is why he came there., isn't that right?
Mr. DEAN. That at is correct.
Senator GURNEY,. What did you tell him that you needed him for?
Mr. DEAN. To pay for the, silence of these individuals.
Senator GURNEY. Are you sure you told him that?
Mr. DEAN. Well, if there was, any doubt in his mind, I would be surprised.
Senator GURNEY. Well, I thought that the money went for a number of things, like the payment bail money, the payment of attorneys' of fees, fees, the payment of support for the defendants and their families.
Weren't those some of the reasons the money was being raised?
Mr. DEAN. I can recall----
Senator GURNEY. You told him nothing about that?
Mr. DEAN. Well, Senator, if you will let me answer the question please. I can recall that when Mr. Ehrlichman was asking me about some of my testimony, he said, well, I always assumed this was for humanitarian purposes.
[00.28.34-DEAN insinuates that GURNEY is being extremely obtuse about the implications of the money, that it was clear to all involved]
I said, now, you know we talked about specifics, I played some tapes and the like. To pay the support, the, bail, and the like of these, individuals who had been found in the Democratic National Committee, who could begin unraveling the whole matter--I think, Senator, knowing the good lawyer you are, you would understand very well that this was for silence. 'Mr. Kalmbach had no difficulty understanding this was as for silence.
[00.29.02-GURNEY is in fact incredibly obtuse]
Senator GURNEY. I am not sure I would at all, I think that would be a very human thing to do if you employed some people who had got caught and who had no resources. I would think it would be a fairly logical thing, that you might raise, some, money for these. expenditures.
Mr. DEAN. Well, 'Senator, I am saying that I was quite sure that Mr. Kalmbach understood after our meeting that the purpose, of his mission was. He told me that he, wanted to use Mr. Ulasewicz for the deliveries. If we were going to make such payments openly, why not put it on the campaign expenditures?