NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - CIA Director Richard Helms
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - "Opening"
NPACT opening sequence with NPACT logo. Acronyms for various U.S. Government Agencies to be investigated for criminal activity be the U.S. Senate including the CIA (Central Intelligence Agency), NSA (National Security Agency), IRS (Internal Revenue Service), and the FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigation). Black and red graphic of U.S. Capitol Dome. First page of 94th Congress 1st Session Senate Resolution 21 (S.RES.21) to establish the Church Committee. Washington: Senate Hearings on Intelligence Committees.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Panel Guests
Guests in television studio: author of books on U.S. intelligence David Wise and former CIA Deputy Director Ray Cline.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Paul Duke
Reporter Paul Duke in empty Senate Hearing Room, reporting on the testimony of former CIA Director and “King of Spies” Richard Helms to the Church Committee. Duke mentions Helms' service in the OSS (Office of Strategic Services) during World War II and his various contributions to the CIA throughout his career. Duke discusses CIA expansion under Director Helms and his popularity on Capitol Hill. Duke discusses the effect of the Watergate scandal on the reputation of the CIA and the agency’s tie to Nixon “plumber” E. Howard Hunt.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Richard Helms
Former CIA Director Richard Helms testifying before the Church Committee during the U.S. Senate Hearings on CIA activities. Committee Counsel F.A.O Schwarz Jr. asks Helms if he was aware the CIA had the capability to use bacteriological and chemical weapons offensively. Helms says yes, that they can be used both defensively and offensively. Schwarz asks if the term “offensively” includes killing people. Helms says they can be used to kill people, if used in that way. Schwarz asks if Helms can connect the CIA’s biological weapons to Fort Detrick Army Base. Helms suggests there was joint operation between the CIA and the Army with biological weapons at Fort Detrick; seated next to Helms is former CIA Director of Plans Thomas Karamessines. Schwarz asks Helms and Karamessines if they were aware of the CIA housing biological weapons at its own facilities and not just at Fort Detrick. Helms says he was always under the impression that bacteriological and chemical warfare agents were stored at Fort Detrick, with a small quantity K-tablets and L-tablets (suicide pills, lethal pills, kill pills, cyanide) at CIA facilities. Schwarz asks Helms if he had any possibility in his mind that biological weapons may have been stored elsewhere besides Fort Detrick; Helms says he did not; Karamissines corroborates.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Richard Helms & Thomas Karamissines
Former CIA Director Richard Helms and former CIA Director of Plans Thomas Karamissines testifying before the Church Committee during the U.S. Senate Hearings on CIA activities. Committee Counsel F.A.O Schwarz Jr. asks Helms if at some point he learned that U.S. President Richard Nixon had concluded the U.S. should renounce biological warfare and destroy stocks of biological weapons. Helms says he was aware because he attended the National Security Council meeting at which President Nixon announced his plan to conduct a study on biological warfare. Karamissines also says he knew of Nixon’s plans to have chemical weapons destroyed. Schwarz asks what they intended to do with the biological weapons at the CIA and Fort Detrick once Nixon ordered all biological weapons to be destroyed. Helms says Karamissines agreed to terminate the program; Karamissines says his reaction was the same as Helms. Karamissines describes his understanding-- along with that of Helms and CIA poison expert Dr. Sidney Gottlieb --that not only was the biological weapons program to be terminated but that any remaining biological weapons in CIA possession would be gathered at Fort Detrick to be destroyed. Schwarz asks Karamissines if Helms was made aware there were materials in possession of the CIA; Karamissines cannot recall.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Richard Helms & Thomas Karamissines
Former CIA Director Richard Helms and Former CIA Director of Plans Thomas Karamissines testifying before the Church Committee during U.S. Senate Hearings on CIA activities. Committee Counsel F.A.O Schwarz Jr. refers Helms and Karamissines to Exhibit One, a memorandum from Karamissines to Director Helms. Karamissines comments on a related story that appeared in the Evening Star. Karamissines says he has never saw, wrote, or signed the memo in question. Helms says he never saw the memo. Schwarz questions Helms on his early statement that he knew early on of U.S. President Richard Nixon’s intent to put an end to biological warfare programs. Helms implies President Nixon was mainly referring to the use of biological and chemical weapons on a worldwide scale for war, rather than to the limited use of biological weapons by the CIA. Schwarz brings up testimony of COA toxins expert Dr. Nathan Gordon in which Dr. Gordon stated he believed Nixon’s ban on biological weapons did not apply to the CIA; Helms states that unlike Dr. Gordon, he did believe the ban applied to the CIA.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Richard Helms
Church Committee Chairman U.S. Senator Frank Church (D-ID) questions former CIA Director Richard Helms during the U.S. Senate hearings on CIA activities, references testimony of CIA toxins expert Dr. Nathan Gordon who said he was never made aware of U.S. President Richard Nixon’s policy against the use of biological weapons by Director Helms or CIA Director of Plans Thomas Karamissines and therefore, never destroyed the toxins in the CIA’s possession. Dr. Gordon testified he read about the new policy in the newspaper and did his best to interpret it from there. Church asks why Dr. Gordon was never given any formal directive on the policy.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Richard Helms
Former CIA Director Richard Helms testifies to question made by Church Committee Chairman Frank Church as to why CIA toxins expert Dr. Nathan Gordon was not officially informed of U.S. President Richard Nixon’s new policy against the use of biological weapons. Helms says when he had asked to have the biological and chemical weapons program terminated, he was under the impression that CIA poison expert Dr. Sidney Gottlieb would pass the order to the whole program. Helms says that to his understanding the toxins were at U.S. Army base Fort Detrick to be destroyed. Helms mentions classified documents from the White House on the termination of biological and chemical weapons programs that have restricted dissemination, explaining why CIA toxins expert Dr. Nathan Gordon never saw any official documents. Senator Church says that some form of documentation should have been sent down to those in charge of the toxins; Helms agrees, says he believed Dr. Gottlieb had done so. Church asks Helms why he did not follow up with Gottlieb; Helms says he was under the impression the biological weapons program had been terminated and he had no reason to believe his employees would mislead him. Church asks Helms who told him the toxins had been destroyed; Helms says he read about it in the newspaper, to which Church laughs.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Thomas Karamissines
Former CIA Director of Plans Thomas Karamissines testifies before the Church Committee Senate hearings on CIA activities, comments on why the CIA appeared to have continued work with biological weapons after U.S. President Richard Nixon’s order to have all biological and chemical weapons programs terminated, saying CIA poison expert Dr. Sydney Gottlieb carried out the procedures to end the programs. Dr. Gottlieb finished terminating them and notified Karamissines that U.S. Army Base Fort Detrick was going to be allowed to continue defensive research on biological and chemical weapons and would keep the CIA posted. As far as Karamissines was concerned, this put an end to the CIA’s program. Committee Chairman U.S. Senator Frank Church (D-ID) asks Karamissines if he was shocked to discover five years later that his orders were not carried out, that the CIA was still in possession of quantities of shellfish toxins; Karamissines says he was not shocked, but disappointed. Former CIA Director Richard Helms says he was surprised because in his 25 years of service this was one of the few times an order was disobeyed. U.S. Senator John Tower (R-TX) asks Helms if it was usual practice for him to give orders orally; Helms says it was, even on extremely important matters. Senator Towers asks if it is not policy to transmit sensitive orders in writing; Helms says that secret intelligence organizations would come to a halt if everything had to be put in writing.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Richard Helms
U.S. Senator John Tower (R-TX) reads from the testimony of former CIA director Richard Helms on toxic dart gun at Church Committee hearings on CIA activities. Senator Tower asks Richard Helms if he ever considered using the dart gun or similar weapons against a human target. Helms says he does not recall considering or authorizing its use, adding that yesterday at the hearing was the first time he had ever seen the item.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Richard Helms
U.S. Senator Walter Huddleston (D-KY) at Church Committee Hearings on CIA activities, questioning former CIA Director Richard Helms on whether verbal orders were standard operating procedure regardless of the nature of the order. Helms confirms most commands regardless of sensitivity were likely to be given verbally. Senator Huddleston asks if it would have been a good idea to keep a written record of orders to end the CIA’s chemical weapons program in case foreign nations ever questioned the United States’ commitment to ending biological and chemical weapons programs; Helms suggests the Secretary of Defense and other Government officials could have offered written memorandums including the definition of what a toxin is, but Helms says he never saw such documentation.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Richard Helms
U.S. Senator Walter Huddleston (D-KY) at Church Committee hearings on CIA activities, continuing questioning former CIA Director Richard Helms. Senator Huddleston again asks why no written record of orders was kept, especially regarding U.S. policy change against biological and chemical weapons programs; points out that other agencies under investigation have shown that great pains to prepare written instructions and record minutes. Helms says that if he would have known then what he knows now he would have issued a directive in writing.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Richard Helms & Thomas Karamissines
U.S. Senator Richard Schweiker (R-PA) at Church Committee Hearings on CIA activities, questioning former CIA Director of Plans Thomas Karamissines on the quantities of shellfish toxin found in possession of the CIA, discussing the discovery of CIA shellfish toxins found at Public Health facilities, asking if Karamissines knew that money was going through the CIA to public health organizations for shellfish toxin research. Karamissines says he was not aware of this but could have been aware of signing off on approvals for expenditures that went towards the funding for shellfish toxin research. Schweiker says that Karamissines would have signed off on these activities, asking if he does not recollect if it occurred; Karamissines says approvals for expenditures were based on written record, adding that the written record should show what the story is, confirming that he cannot exactly recall the events in question. Former CIA Director Richard Helms asks if it has been ascertained the CIA paid for shellfish toxin research. Schweiker asks if the Public Health research labs were paid directly through the CIA or whether contracts were issued through the Army with Public Health Service stations involved; Karamissines says he was only aware of the Fort Detrick arrangement. Schweiker points out there were 194,000 contracts between the Army and the Public Health Service; Helms asks what this contract has to do with the CIA; Schweiker says it produced some of the shellfish toxin in possession of the CIA, to which Helms laughs.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Thomas Karamissines
U.S. Senator Richard Schweiker (R-PA) at Church Committee hearings on CIA activities, asks if shellfish toxin research is a proper use of the Public Health Service in the eyes of the CIA or the Army. Former CIA Director of Plans Thomas Karamissines argues the Public Health Service would have a vital interest in keeping abreast toxin research, as it is part of their job to protect the country against toxin-based weapons. Senator Schweiker says he is not sure that making poisons that kill tens of thousands of people is protecting the country, thinks this is a perversion of the PHS. Former CIA Director Richard Helms says he is not aware of any connection between the CIA and the PHS, says he has read in the paper that shellfish toxin is valuable in the field of immunization and possibly the treatment of disease. Helms does not agree.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Richard Helms
U.S. Senator Richard Schweiker (R-PA) at Church Committee hearings on CIA activities, discussing the Army contract with the Public Health Service in Cincinnati, Ohio, citing it as a specific and direct link between the biological arm of intelligence agencies and the Public Health Service. Former CIA Director Richard Helms argues the biological arm belongs to the Department of Defense and not the CIA. Senator Schweiker argues that toxin research done by the PHS was financed in part by the CIA. Helms argues they were only funding the part of the program for the CIA, not the entire program. Schweiker points out the toxin research at the PHS required 3 million dollars of government money, bringing serious question of who the Public Health Service really works for.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - James Leonard
Former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations James Leonard testifying at Church Committee Hearings on CIA activities, discussing the question of biological and chemical warfare in terms of international agenda during 1967 and 1968; says there was a United Kingdom proposal to have biological and chemical warfare separated, with the former to be dealt with first as a more simple and urgent question; adds the question was placed under the study of U.S. President Richard Nixon’s administration in 1969. Committee Chairman U.S. Senator Frank Church (D-ID) asks if President Nixon took a position to do away with biological and chemical weapons programs immediately, before a treaty was signed; Leonard says yes, adds that Nixon’s intentions were publicly announced. Senator Church implies this was a gesture of peace; Leonard says yes, adds it was Nixon’s intention to get out of the biological weapons business, that the country was safer without them. Nixon tasked the State Department and the Arms Control Agency to pursue other departments to take the same position. Church asks if the Defense Department concurred with this position. Leonard says yes, the Defense Department. Leonard says the original proposal did not deal with toxins-- a further National security memorandum added them to the proposal in 1970; the British then agreed they should be included in the treaty.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - James Leonard
Former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations James Leonard testifying at Church Committee Hearings on CIA activities. Black folder marked “Top Secret.” Leonard gives suggestions for tighter controls on the CIA, discusses administrative measures such as a clear written record running from the top down and then comes from the middle levels of the Government back up, helping prevent confusion and assure compliance. Committee Chairman U.S. Senator Frank Church (D-ID) discusses the highly secretive activities testified to so far, noting that U.S. President Richard Nixon’s call to end biological and chemical weapons programs was very public and was well known that the Government was in possession of toxins that were to be destroyed. Senator Church says there is no reason why a direct written order should not have gone down through every agency; Leonard says this is correct, adds it could have even been an unclassified written order.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Panelist Ray Cline
Former CIA Deputy Director Ray Cline discusses what has surprised him with the Church Committee hearings on CIA activities. Cline discusses shock when he learned that a junior CIA Officer made the mistake of keeping a vial of poison when he should not have. He was also shocked by the Committee’s time spent on this rather small issue when there are bigger issues with the CIA at hand.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Panelist Ray Cline
Former CIA Deputy Director Ray Cline discusses what has surprised him with the Church Committee hearings on CIA activities, says he does not believe the discovery of shellfish poison is a threat to the public, considering the CIA was mainly using it in attempt to make better suicide and not using the shellfish toxins offensively.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Panelist David Wise
Author David Wise opines on the findings from the Church Committee hearings on CIA activities, discusses that a Presidential order was ignored by a mid-level official. Wise says the order appears to be very illusive. Wise refer to testimony of former CIA Director Richard Helms that he believed the order had been carried out. Wise suggests no actual proof of the order has been offered so far.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Panelist Ray Cline
Former CIA Deputy Director Ray Cline opines on the findings of the Church Committee hearings on CIA activities, cites his own experience in the CIA, the Defense Department, and the State Department; discusses the difficulty of running an agency like the CIA. Cline comes to the Defense of former CIA Director Richard Helms with regard to the fact that not all of Helms’ orders could be recorded.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Panelists David Wise and Ray Cline
Author David Wise and former CIA Deputy Director Ray Cline discuss the findings of the Church Committee hearings on CIA activities, arguing about the true danger of shellfish toxins, with Wise arguing that it could have killed hundreds of thousands of people. Cline disagrees, believes U.S. Senator Frank Church and the other members of the Committee are playing “cops and robbers.” Wise refers to CIA Director William Colby’s statement regarding two teaspoon quantities of shellfish toxin. Wise and Cline argue about the amount of people that could have been killed with the shellfish toxins.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Panelist David Wise & Ray Cline
Author David Wise and former CIA Deputy Director Ray Cline discuss the findings of the Church Committee hearings on CIA activities. Cline discusses the impracticability of killing thousands of individuals with shellfish toxin. Wise argues, claiming CIA Director William Colby said technology to kill thousands of people with shellfish toxins does exist.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Richard Helms
U.S. Senator Walter Mondale (D-MN) at Church Committee hearings on CIA activities, asking former CIA director Richard Helms where the CIA drew its authority to develop chemical and toxic capabilities. Helms says the CIA first went ahead with developing chemical weapons in the 1950s but cannot recall the legal or legislative process for the authority. Helms says he accepted the creation of defensive chemical weapons as part of the agency’s job to keep up with its adversaries.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Richard Helms
Testimony of former CIA Director Richard Helms before the Church Committee on CIA activities, who tells stories of the Soviet Union carrying out assassinations in West Germany with the use of poison during the 1950s and 1960s. In 1957, Soviet KGB agent Bohdan Stashynsky used poison to assassinate Ukrainian Nationalist Lev Rebet in Munich. Stashynsky also used poison to assassinate Ukrainian Nationalist leader Stepan Bandera. Helms says these instances should be on record with the West German government, and Stashynsky confessed to the crimes when he later defected to West Germany.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Richard Helms
Testimony of former CIA Director Richard Helms before the Church Committee on CIA activities, who tells the story of a West German audio technician tasked with sweeping and removing audio bugs from the West German Embassy in Moscow. The technician later was attacked with mustard gas by the Soviets, causing him to lose the use of his legs. Helms says instances like this caused the CIA to develop and maintain their own chemical weapons as a matter of defense.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Senators Mondale & Baker Interviews
Reporter Paul Duke interviews U.S. Senators Walter Mondale (D-MN) and Howard Baker (R-TN) for their opinions on the testimony of former CIA Director Richard Helms at the Church Committee Hearings. Senator Mondale believes Helms did orally order the toxins to be destroyed, but did not find some of Helms' chemical defense arguments to be persuasive. Mondale says Helms is a “committee pro” and knows how to deflect and redirect questions presented to him by the committee. Senator Baker agrees that Helms gave them part of the story, but not the whole one. Mondale gives an example of how Helms deflected one of his questions by giving a long story of what the Communists have done with toxins. Duke asks if the Church Committee has come any closer to the truth after two days of hearings on the CIA. Baker discusses his investigation into the CIA over the past two years starting with the Watergate scandal. Baker says that after two years he is not sure that you could ever do more than approximate the circumstances because it is not like secret or covert operations keep records. Baker believes much has been learned about the retention of CIA toxins, but notes the break in chain of command as to who ordered that toxins be retained.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Senators Mondale & Baker Interview
Reporter Paul Duke interviews U.S. Senators Walter Mondale (D-MN) and Howard Baker (R-TN) on their opinions of the testimony of former CIA Director Richard Helms at the Church Committee Hearings. Duke asks what the course of the committee should be now in the CIA case. Senator Mondale discusses upcoming witnesses from the Army and CIA, says the committee will be looking into many other aspects of the CIA and other agencies. Mondale says this is the beginning of a long and complicated struggle. Mondale says there has been a consistent pattern of large gaps in the evidence, and concedes the CIA must be secret but should be accountable.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Panelist Ray Cline
Former CIA Deputy Director Ray Cline offers his opinions on the testimony of CIA Directors William Colby and Director Richard Helms. Cline believes both are honest and conscientious civil servants, that they have trouble getting across to Congress how things really were in a secret bureaucracy like the CIA. Cline believes Helms and Colby come from the generation that got into intelligence in World War II and stayed due to the conviction that intelligence about the outside world is essential to good government. Cline says Colby and Helms differ in the sense that Helms was more concerned with gathering intelligence and Colby is more concerned with the political field due to his nation-building work in Vietnam.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Panelists David Wise and Ray Cline
Author David Wise offers his opinion on the testimony of CIA Directors William Colby and Richard Helms at the Church Committee Hearings. Wise refers to Helms' personal style as “more dapper” and references Helms’ smoking of unfiltered cigarettes. Wise calls Director Colby grayer, saying “he blends into the woodwork.” Wise believes intelligence is needed for information but does not need to be involved in the development of toxins that can kill thousands of people. Former CIA Deputy Director Ray Cline argues the development of toxins did have something to do with the protection of U.S. agents, with the original purpose being to commit suicide quickly.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Panelist Ray Cline
Former CIA Deputy Director Ray Cline opines on the suggestion of former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations James Leonard for breaking the CIA into smaller departments and ending covert operations. Cline agrees that all the duties of the CIA Director may be too much for one person to effectively manage. He disagrees with bringing an end to covert operations, saying that historically some secret assistance to moderate countries trying to keep parliamentary government alive abroad has been helpful.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Panelist David Wise
Author David Wise opines on the suggestion of former U.S. Ambassador to United Nations James Leonard to end the CIA’s covert operations. Wise believes covert operations should be ended, saying it violates international law. Wise says the Bay of Pigs was the result of covert operations, discusses the overthrow of the Chilean government and the death of Chilean President Salvador Allende in the resulting Coup d’état of 1973. Wise points out that the CIA spent 8 million dollars in Chile, a strain on the U.S. political system.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Panelists Ray Cline & David Wise
Former CIA Deputy Director Ray Cline discusses the threat of totalitarian government in Portugal and how he regrets there was no covert action by the CIA there. Cline and author David Wise argue the risk of totalitarian government in Portugal. Cline believes the U.S. has a responsibility to deal with certain international affairs covertly.
NPACT coverage of Church Committee Hearings - Panelists Ray Cline & David Wise
Former CIA Deputy Director Ray Cline and author David Wise argue the use of CIA covert operations abroad, using the then-current risk of totalitarian government in Portugal as reference. Wise is less concerned about totalitarian government in Portugal and more concerned about totalitarian government in the U.S.