August 2, 1994 - Part 6
August 2, 1994 - Part 6
(00:20:45) Senator GRAMM. I have a simple question that I want to ask most of the members of the panel and let me just read it. Mr. Altman, I want to ask you first, have you or any member of your staff had any communication with the President, the First Lady, or any other representatives, including their legal counsel, or any member of their White House staff, concerning Whitewater or the Madison Savings & Loan? 420 Mr. ALTMAN. I have had one substantive contact with the White House staff and I want to tell you about it, Senator GRAMM. Let me, if I may, just given-that's a yes. I would like to know what the substance of that communication was, when it occurred, who initiated it, and what you were asked to do. Mr. ALTMAN. First of all, I initiated it, it was about 3 weeks ago Jean Hanson, who is Treasury General Counsel, and I requested a meeting with Mr. Nussbaum And you went on to describe that meeting. Now, that is the one meeting that you made reference to; is that correct. Mr. ALTMAN, That's the only substantive contact I had with the White House. Senator D'AMATO. That's not the question that Senator Gramm asked you. He asked you, and I refer you to the record, if you have it there in front of you, "have you or any member of your staff had any communications." He didn't say the question. of substantive or for you to make an evaluation. "Any communications with the President, the First Lady, or any other representative, including their legal counsel or any - member of the White House staff concerning Whitewater or the Madison Savings & Loan"; is that correct? Mr. ALTMAN. That's Senator D'AMATO. You said one, and you referred to one meeting-, is that correct? Mr. ALTMAN. I immediately said in response to Senator Gramm that I've bad one substantive contact. Senator DAMATO. Correct. Mr. ALTMAN, And I proceeded to describe that one substantive contact. Senator DAMATO. Let me refer you. Mr. ALTMAN. Senator Gramm, as you know, then interrupted me, properly so, and said tell me about the substance of your contact. Senator D'AMATO. Let me ask you about this. Do you recall having a meeting with Maggie Williams, the Chief of Staff for Mrs. Clinton, a member of the White House staff? You know Maggie Williams? Mr. ALTMAN. I certainly do. Senator DAMATO. Did you have a meeting in early January in which you recorded in your diary, and I have the diary notes here, or in slips of paper which you collected and wrote your thoughts. I have one dated January 4, 1994. "Diary" it says at the top of it. It says, "on Whitewater Maggie told me that Hillary Clinton was paralyzed by it. If we don't solve this within the next 2 days, you don't have to worry about her schedule on Health Care." Do YOU recall this? Mr. ALTMAN. To the best of my recollection, Senator, that was an aside to me during a meeting on Health Care. Senator D'AMATO. Then let me give you some more about it. Mr. ALTMAN. I want to emphasize if I may, Senator. Senator D'AMATO. Let me read the rest. Mr. ALTMAN. That has nothing to do with the RTC investigation of Madison. Senator D'AMATO. We re talking about-there's no comment about investigation here. It "says any contact with the White House, with the President, First Lady, or any of their representa- 421 tives, including their staff concerning Whitwater or the Madison Savings& Loan." Mr. ALTMAN. Senator Senator D'AMATO. Now let me finish. And here is Maggie Williams telling you that on Whitewater, and you start off on Whitewater, then you went on to say that Lloyd Bentsen went over to see George. I take it that George is George Stephanopoulos, Mr. ALTMAN. I believe so. Senator D'AMATO. On Whitewater yesterday to urge "lancing the boil" and I have him quoted here: Maggie strongly indicated that the White House is trying to negotiate the scope of the Independent Counsel with Janet Reno and they were having enormous difficulty. Let me ask you, was that not about Whitewater? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, when I used the term "substantive" Senator DAMATO. Listen, please don't tell me about "substantive." Was that about Whitewater? You are now telling us that the only contacts that you thought that Senator Gramm raised were substantive? He said any contacts with the White House. Let me finish. You went on to say, "'Hillary Clinton doesn't want the Counsel poking into 20 years of public life." I submit to you that's at least one contact that you are aware of and that you certainly didn't tell us. And I have a whole number of these that I'm going to go through with you as time permits, you see, because, I think Mr. ALTMAN, May I respond to that? Senator D'AMAT0. --Given the fact that I told you the night before, given the fact that the night before you spoke to Mr. Ickes on the issue of recusal, and that whole issue centered around Whitewater. For you to suggest to this Committee that recusal bad nothing to do with Whitewater is a-would be a figment of somebody's imagination and would be at the