August 2, 1994 - Part 6
August 2, 1994 - Part 6
(00:55:26) The CHAIRMAN. Senator Sarbanes, could I interrupt based on time to try to extend your time, Senator D'Amato has made a suggestion and I advise all Committee Members we've been going with 7-minute segments. Senator D'Amato has recommended to me that as of now we shift to 10-minute periods so we don't have as many break-ups in the question and therefore, if that's agreeable, we'll do that now and extend Senator Sarbanes by the 3 additional minutes and then from this point on, we'll go in 10-minute segments. Senator MOSELEY-BRAUN. Mr. Chairman, I agree with that and I wonder then if you'll be sharp with the gavel? The CHAIRMAN. I've been trying to be without being rude to people, so we'll go in that fashion, and Senator Sarbanes is to be recognized for 3 additional minutes. We'll now have 10-minute questioning periods from this point on, Senator SARBANES. You think it would have been proper or appropriate for the Public Affairs Officer of the RTC to bring to the 429 White House's attention for the first time that these criminal referrals have been made to the Justice Department? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, that's not my understanding of what happened. Again, I wasn't there. My understanding of what happened, and I understand this has been confirmed in the depositions, for instance$ which the Office of Government Ethics took, the purpose of the communication was to alert the White House of an impending press leak. We also know Senator SARBANES. But in the course of alerting them, you can't divorce, even if I accept that the purpose was alerting them of the press leak, the fact that that alert brought to their attention the criminal referrals? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, we have the report of the Office of Government Ethics, as you know. Very thorough report, it's an independent agency, It's not part of the Clinton Administration and it coneluded that those contacts were appropriate. Senator SARBANES. Mr. Altman, it's possible not to do something illegal, not to do something unethical, and yet to do something that reflects very bad judgment, is it not? Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, it is Senator and a numb er of people have said, Mr. Cutler, Secretary Bentsen, that in hindsight it would have been better had those contacts not occurred. Senator SARBANES. On what basis was Ms. Hanson involved in these RTC matters in any event? I mean you were wearing, two hats, you were Deputy Secretary of the Treasury and the CEO of the RTC. Now on what basis was she brought into these matters? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, I was relying on a number of Treasury staff as my predecessor 7 Mr. Robson, did to help me with RTC matters. I was able to give very little time to the RTC. Two senior staff meetings a week lasted about 11/2 hours each, and I needed help. I asked a number of Treasury staff, Frank Newman, Under Secrets for Domestic Finance, Mike Levy, Assistant Secretary for Legislative Affairs, and others including Jean Hanson to help me out. Senator SARBANES. Ms. Hanson says she would not have gone on her own to Nussbaum to tell him about these criminal referrals, that that is something she would not have done of her own volition, and she did it, therefore, at your behest. What's your response to that? Mr. ALTMAN. I don't recollect that, Senator, I don't think I would have tasked Ms. Hanson to do that. Senator SARBANES. Let's strike the word "ta-sked." Maybe that's-I mean I'm listening very carefully to your answer. Mr. ALTMAN. That's her word. Senator SARBANES. I understand that. Let's try some other words. Did you do anything or make any indication to Ms. Hanson that she should bring this information to the attention of the White House? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, I don't believe that I did. I can't say, of course what she may have inferred. I don't believe that I did. Senator SARBANES. What did you do on the basis of which she might have inferred, I think that 's the word you just used, that she might have inferred that she should go to Nussbaum with this information? 430 Mr. ALTMAN. I don't believe I did anything, Senator. All I'm saying is that she could have perhaps misunderstood, Senator SARBANES. What would she have misunderstood? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, my response is that I don't recall tasking her to do it, I think I would have remembered if I had done it. have a lot of respect for Jean Hanson, we're friends and we're colleagues and I hope we're going to remain so. I'm simply saying that she may have misunderstood. Senator SARBANES. Well, I'm trying to