August 2, 1994 - Part 6
August 2, 1994 - Part 6
(01:05:55) Here is my question: You were asked point blank-first of all, you were asked a question which you didn't answer. You chanted the question. The graceful dodge. You were asked in detail what at happened. Then, when it became Senator Domenici's turn, he posed the question point blank, "you are not saying that there has been more than one contact," and you say "no." We now know there were 40 contacts. We now know 4, at least 4 of them, you were engaged in yourself, and we know that other subject matter was discussed. Now how do you reconcile that? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, as I said in my statement, I had one substantive contact on the case, and I used the term "substantive" as to relate to the RTC investigation of Madison, and that I believe was true then and that I believe is true today. Senator GRAMM. It wasn't the question then and it isn't the question now. The question then and the question now was contacts, and, in fact, Senator Domenici noted that you keep saying, "substantive." "You're not saying you had more than one contact are you, Mr. Altman," and you say, "no." Mr. ALTMAN. Senator , my response to Senator Domenici, I believe, clearly indicates that there may have been other contacts, clearly indicates that. Senator GRAMM. How does it indicate it, you say, "no"? Mr. ALTMAN. Because I say I'm not counting these other contacts. Senator GRAMM. And these other contacts were passing somebody in the hall. Let me ask you a question. February 2 was the one contact you disclosed to us. The day after this one contact you had, -this one substantive contact you bad was February 3. You go to the White House. Ms. Hanson is out having lunch with somebody, and you beep her and tell her to hurry down to the White House. She gets up, leaves her dessert, and scurries down to the White House. She gets there, you're done, but Mr. Ickes is there. 432 and he says to Ms. Hanson, how many people have you told about Altman thinking about recusing himself, and he in essence-and then he says to her it's a good thing-let me be sure I have the language right. Ickes says to Hanson, how many people know that she recommended you recuse yourself and refers to the fact that it's good there were only a few of them. Now you were at that meeting. You pull her out of her lunch to come there. They say to her it's a good thing that she's told only a few people that you're thinking about recusing yourself. This happened the next day and you say this is not substantive? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, when I used the word "substantive" I meant in relation to the RTC investigation of Madison. So you may disagree Senator GRAMM. Let me just stop you right there. Is not the recusal related to the fact that you are a friend of the President of the United States and that these referrals refer to him, isn't that what the recusal is all about? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, recusal bad nothing to do whatsoever with the RTC investigation of Madison. Whether I recused myself or I did not recuse myself would have no bearing on that. Senator GRAMM. Why would you recuse yourself if it weren't for conflict of interest? Why else would you do it? Is it not that the whole discussion about recusal came originally from the Congress back in January, wasn't that whole discussion about the fact that you are an FOB, Friend of Bill? As we get further into this I'm going to go back and discuss what the were saying at the White Ouse about who were they going to be left with if you recused yourself, that this is a tough prosecutor. Was that not a substantive meeting? Not that it matters, because you made up your own question. But the point is, not only didn't you answer my question, not only didn't you tell the truth, you didn't tell the truth on the question you made up, because the February 3 meeting was a substantive meeting, was it not, Mr. Altman? Mr. ALTMAN. Senator, I told the truth. I testified truthfully before this Committee. Members of this Committee, some of them at least, have known me for quite a few years. I might have made mistakes and I may have done things wrong, but I've never come before the Congress and not done my very best to answer forthrightly and honestly and I did that that day.