August 2, 1994 - Part 10
August 2, 1994 - Part 10
(00:20:17) Senator SARBANES. To respond very specifically to your question - because I have here now the two volumes from the OGE. Apparently they did take depositions of a number of the White House people including Eggleston, Gearan, Ickes, Lindsey, McLarty, Nuss- baum, Sloan, Stephanopoulos and Williams, so they're in these volumes and they did take their depositions. Senator DOMENICI. I was misinformed, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Senator Gramm. GRAMM. Mr. Chairman, I don't want to spend any time ask a question on it, but since it's been raised I want read two statements from this so- called ethics report. One is Senator DODD. What do you mean, "so- called ethics report"? Senator GRAMM. Well, if you wish, this ethics report. OK Let me read the statements. "We believe that you could conclude that the Senator DAMATO. How come you get to be so outraged all the time? 512 Senator GRAMM. Let me just read two statements. I'll get my questions. "We believe that you could conclude that the appearance ciple was not violated by Ms. Hanson's disclosure." That is est standard that you could set. You could conclude that it violated. They don't conclude it wasn't violated. They just say could conclude. Second, they say "we feel there is insufficient information to en- able us to provide you with any further analysis of Mr. Altman's participation in this disclosure if any." If this is a fig leaf, it's mighty small fig leaf. Now, let me go back to Mr. D'Amato's point and make several quick points that are important. If the issue of whether or not Mr Altman told this Committee something that was not true is not rel- evant, I wonder what is. Whether you are a Democrat or Repub- lican, no matter who your I loyalties are to, it is a relevant issue here as to whether a witness before this Committee tells the truth. We have established here at several different points that, in fact, the truth was not told to this Committee, Since Mr. D'Amato speaks in a strange dialect that some of us have trouble understanding, maybe it wasn't clear what be was saying, but for the rest of the country, let me translate. What he was saying is this: He asked a question. Did anyone request this meeting to which Mr. Altman referred? Mr. Altman is on the record saying, and I quote, "I requested the meeting." Then Mr. D'Amato says, "was there any other meeting that may have been requested?" To which Mr. Altman says, "no." Now, it is true that Mr. D'Amato's next statement, which Mr. D'Amato said in a question, was, "there was no other meeting that you were aware of that the White House Counsel requested?" The point is, that Mr. D'Amato never uttered that word about the White House until you first-had said, "no." So unless you have the a ability to look into Mr. D'Amato's mind you could never have known that he was going to say anything about the White House, which is your change in the question. That could not have been known by you in advance. But even if it could have been known, even if your mental Powers allowed you to look into Mr. D'Amato's mind, then Mr. Domenici subsequently it asked you directly, when you kept using this evasive term about substantive contact"-and we're not talking about meetings here, we're talking about contacts. And Senator Domenici says you're not suggesting there were any other contacts. He's not saying anything about the White House setting them up or who- ever was setting them up. And you say, "no." That is why Mr. D'Amato's statement is very, very important. submit that we are wasting our time, and we're wasting the air waves of the Nation, if it is not relevant when a witness tells us something that is not so. Now 2 hours ago when I had the floor Mr. ALTMAN. May I respond to that? Senator GRAMM, If you would do it very briefly. Senator DODD. If my colleague would yield just on the one point, I never said it wasn't relevant. My point simply was that I thought two people could draw different conclusions. 513 Senator GRAMM. They couldn't on three occasions, though, Chris. On three occasions, there was a point blank question. But I don't yield. I've got some things that I want to develop in the short time I have. I'm sorry, I love my colleagues. If, Mr. Altman, you could give me a short answer.