August 2, 1994 - Part 10
August 2, 1994 - Part 10
(01:40:47) Mr. ALTMAN. I did, yes, Senator. Senator BOXER. And when Bernie Nussbaum was grumpy about Ellen Kulka and said something to the effect of, you know, she's tough and maybe we better not-maybe she can 't be trusted or words to that effect, you kept her in her place and you defended her, did you not? Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, Senator, Senator BOXER. Did you not defend her to Mr. ALTMAN. I told him I had confidence in her. Senator BOXER. Sorry? 531 Mr. ALTMAN. I told him I had confidence in her. Senator BOXER. You did. So if you were to "please" Mr. Nussbaum, you certainly wouldn't have, it seems to me, defended her. You recommended a Republican to head the RTC; is that correct? Mr. ALTMAN. Yes. senator BOXER. You spoke to some people up here about that individual? Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, Senator. Senator BOXER. Is that correct? You took no action to stop the hiring of Republican Jay Stephens as Outside Counsel of the RTC; is at correct? Mr. ALTMAN. That's correct. senator BOXER, Even after you were called by a couple of folks at the White House and they complained about Mr. Stephens and they explained to you that be, Mr. Stephens, had been very harshly critical of the President, you said it's a done deal, didn't you? Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, Senator. Senator BOXER. Did you say you'd look into it? Mr. ALTMAN. No, I did not. Senator BOXER. Did you say you were stunned by it? Mr. ALTMAN. No. Senator BOXER. Did you talk to Ms. Kulka about getting rid of Mr. Stephens? Mr. ALTMAN. No, I didn't. senator BOXER. Did you chastise her for that? Mr. ALTMAN. No, I didn't chastise her. I thought it was kind of vintage Ellen. Senator BOXER. It was vintage Ellen. Did you tell the staff at the RTC to treat Madison as they would any other case? Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, Senator, I did. Senator BOXER. Because Mr. Roelle said that. Ms. Kulka said it. And Mr. Ryan said it. They all said it. Ms. Hanson said it. You briefed Republican Senators and Congresspeople on this issue just about the same time you briefed the White House on the procedure: is that correct, in letters and so on? Mr. ALTMAN. I responded to the inquiries that were coming to me, Yes. Senator BOXER. The recusal to take yourself out of the Madison case, that was your idea, was it not? Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, it was. Senator BOXER. Initially? Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, it was. Senator BOXER. And. in the face of White House Counsel, I'll call it disapproval grumpiness, agitation, excitement, you eventually recused yourself, did you not? Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, I did. Senator BOXER, Now, Ms. Hanson told you at the February 24 Senate hearing when you turned around to her, did she not tell you that your testimony was complete vis-a-vis the meetings and, that You were correct to say there were no other meetings; is that correct? Mr. ALTMAN, She confirmed that my response to Senator Bond on that question was the right one. 532 Senator BOXER. So when we saw her on that tape shaking her head no, you said were there any other meetings, and basically that's what you said, she said no. Mr. ALTMAN. Yes. Senator BOXER. Now, I personally fault Ms. Hanson for not get ting the transcript. She tells us she knew they had to be corrected, but somehow this woman, who is of very high caliber, couldn't figure out a way to get the transcript and doesn't make the corrections but didn't she sign off on your corrections? Mr. ALTMAN. She signed off on the letter I sent to Senator Riegle on March 2, and, I think, the March 3 letter. Senator BOXER. When she signed off on that, did she say, but Mr. Altman, this isn't right or Roger, we need to do more? Mr. ALTMAN. No. Senator BOXER. Mr. Altman, do you feel it would have been bet'ter if you bad not had that briefing at the White House? Mr. ALTMAN. In hindsight, it should have been done in writing Senator BOXER. In hindsight, it should have been done in writ- ing, just as you did to Members of this Committee, other Senators, and Congresspeople. That's your view at this point? Mr. ALTMAN. Yes, although if any Senator had called me, I would have given him the information right over the phone if I had it. it was generic. Senator BOXER. Mr. Ryan came to Senator DAmato's office and briefed him personally so obviously the RTC was willing to do that. And now that you know all about these other meetings where the criminal referrals were discussed in terms of a press leak you think it would have been better, even though you didn't know about them, that they hadn't taken place at all? Mr. ALTMAN. Yes. We've said that. I agree with it. Senator BOXER. And you think it would have been better if you went with your gut and had recused yourself because in your heart you didn't feel perfectly good about it-and that was a noble thing-you should have gone with it and you agree with that now. Mr. ALTMAN. I should have done that initially. I know it has created a great big uproar and I regret that. I wish I hadn't. But I did recuse myself.