July 27, 1995 - Part 4
July 27, 1995 - Part 4
(14:50:27) Mr. ADAMS. By the public matters, you mean Mr. BEN-VENISTE. The officials files? Mr. ADAMS. -the general matters that the White House Counsel was working on, other than things that pertain to the Clintons personally? Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Yes, including the things that pertain to Mr. and Mrs. Clinton personally. Mr. ADAMS. Certainly the President would have had the right, had he so desired, if he wanted to look at anything going on in the White House Counsel's Office. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. It was your understanding, was it not, that, following the review of the files, the personal files relating to Mr. and Mrs. Clinton would be sent by Mr. Nussbaum to the personal attorneys for Mr. and Mrs. Clinton? Mr. ADAMS. That's correct. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Neither Mr. Margolis nor you voiced any objection to that. Isn't that so? Mr. ADAMS. That's correct. Mr. BEN-VENISTE. Senator Sarbanes, I'd like to cede the balance of my time to Mr. Kravitz. Senator SARBANES. We'll use up this round with Mr. Kravitz for the other witnesses. Mr. KRAVITZ. Thank you, Senator Sarbanes. Agent Flynn, I'd like to begin with you, if I might. You testified previously that you attended a meeting late in the afternoon on July 21, 1993, in Mr. Nussbaum's office; is that correct? Mr. FLYNN. That's correct, sir. Mr. KRAVITZ. I believe you testified you were there in your role as a liaison or a facilitator for the officials from outside agencies? Mr. FLYNN. Correct, sir. Mr. KRAVITZ. You also attended a meeting earlier that day in Mr. Watkins' office at which some Park Police officials briefed the White House staff; correct? Mr. FLYNN. Correct. Mr. KRAVITZ. You were there in your role as a facilitator or liaison for the outside officials? 560 Mr. FLYNN. Correct, sir. Mr. KRAVITZ. Now, at one or both of those meetings, you learned from White House officials that on the night of July 20, 1993, and possibly the early morning of July 21, 1993, Mr. Nussbaum, Patsy Thomasson, Maggie Williams and Betsy Pond all had been in Mr. Foster's office; is that right? Mr. FLYNN. Correct. Mr. KRAVITZ. So it's fair to say that there was no effort made to conceal the fact that those four White House officials had been in Mr. Foster's office? Mr. FLYNN. That's correct, sir. Mr. KRAVITZ. Agent Salter, I'd like to ask you some questions about your testimony relating to the briefcase and what Mr. Nussbaum did with it during the search on July 22, 1993. Just to be clear, you were never able to see inside the briefcase at any time that afternoon; is that right? Mr. SALTER. That's correct. Mr. KRAVITZ. You demonstrated earlier how Mr. Nussbaum went about removing the files from the briefcase and correct me if I'm wrong, but my memory of your demonstration was that the briefcase was down to Mr. Nussbaum's side; is that correct? Mr. SALTER. Yes. Mr. KRAVITZ. Mr. Nussbaum simply reached down and pulled out the files? Mr. SALTER. Yes. Mr. KRAVITZ. Mr. Nussbaum was talking to the people in the room at the time he did that? Mr. SALTER. Yes, he was, Mr. KRAVITZ. He wasn't looking in the briefcase, was he? Mr. SALTER. I don't specifically recall him looking in the briefcase. Mr. KRAVITZ. Now, you also testified earlier about what Mr. Nussbaum did at a later time. I think you testified about Mr. Nussbaum holding up the briefcase. Do you remember that testimony? Mr. SALTER. Yes. Mr. KRAVITZ. I'd like to direct your attention, if I could--do you have your deposition transcript with you? Mr. SALTER. Yes. Mr. KRAVITZ. If you would, I'd like you to open it up to page 193, and I'm going to read into the record some questions and answers from that deposition beginning at line 15 on page 193: Question: Now, did Mr. Nussbaum actually say anything about the briefcase being empty or simply gesture? Answer: I think he said that it was empty. Question: You think he said that. Do you remember that? Answer: Well, yes, I remember him saying-yes, I remember him saying--I don't know the exact words, but words to the effect that there is nothing further in the briefcase. It's empty. And I mean that-I don't mean to say that it was completely empty like it had been vacuumed up and 27 pieces of paper were not in there. I don't mean that. I mean it was empty that there were no further documents still in it. Question: I guess that's an important distinction. Answer: It is. Question: Do you remember Mr. Nussbaum saying the word "empty' or could you remember him saying there are no more files in here or something to that effect? Answer: I don't recall the exact words he used. I just recall that he said something and conveyed to us that there was nothing else in the briefcase to be looked at. 561 Mr. KRAVITZ. Sir, didn't you testify in your deposition that your understanding, based on the meeting on July 21 in Mr. Nussbaum's office, was that the Department of Justice lawyers would play no role whatsoever in reviewing the documents the next day? Mr. SALTER. I think I just testified that I didn't know the specifics of what role the Department of Justice attorneys would take. My understanding is that when it came down to reviewing the documents that would be done by the investigators. As far as whether or not the Department of Justice lawyers would look at the top page--I wasn't aware of those details. Mr. KRAVITZ. Let me read to you from your deposition transcript again, page 54, beginning on line 15. Again, this is your deposition from June 30, 1995, to this Committee. Question: OK. Just, again, in an effort to maybe probe a little deeper, what understanding, if any, did you have about the role of Mr. Margolis and Mr. Adams in the review of the contents of Mr. Foster's oft-lee? Answer: I don't think-my impression was that they would not have a role in actually conducting the review of the items in the office. Their role was to work out With the people at the White House, you know, the procedures on who we would have access to interview, and I don't really-at that time, I don't really think that they would have any role in the review of the office at all, Question: After the time that Mr. Nussbaum took papers out of the briefcase for the second time, did you ever see Mr, Nussbaum actually look inside the briefcase? Answer: No. That was your testimony, sir, under oath in your deposition? Mr. SALTER. Yes. Mr. KRAVITZ. So it's true that Mr. Nussbaum did not look inside the briefcase after he had removed the files from it; correct?