August 10, 1995 - Part 3
August 10, 1995 - Part 3
(13:05:40) Mr. NUSSBAUM. I haven't noticed that, Senator. Senator BENNETT. Asked her specifically, or it was asked of her, is the grilling the same kind that you've seen Mr. Chertoff give, and she said, yes, that's the kind of grilling I was getting from Bernie Nussbaum. That does not sound like someone who is happy to have found a note, sitting down with someone on the support staff, and grilling her in that specific fashion, as to what she may have seen, and asking the question repeatedly and going at it again and again. You've shown me you have the capacity to go after an issue again and again. We've seen some of that while you've been here too. I asked her the question, were people paranoid. Her answer to me was, I was not paranoid. Then I said, how about the others. And she responded, yes, the others were acting in a manner in which was paranoid. How can you come across to people as being 1372 paranoid and grilling and highly interrogatory when you're so happy that you've finally found the note? Mr. NUSSBAUM. I explained yesterday, Senator, and I'll not repeat the whole explanation because we engaged in this colloquy yesterday. I did not grill Ms. Gorham, certainly not in the manner that Mr. Chertoff grills people. I certainly did not do that. I did not grill Ms. Gorham like that. I asked the questions in a gentle manner. She was in deep shock, and if I tried to rouse her out of her shock, she may now consider that grilling. With respect to these allegations or these statements of paranoia, I think that does come from the fact that Deb Gorham and Linda Tripp, both of whom are very good people, as I said yesterday, felt somehow they were being excluded from something important that was going on in the White House Counsel's Office. That's my explanation, Senator. I was there. You weren't there. I was there, Senator BENNETT. No, I was not there. Mr. NUSSBAUM. I think my That's, I apologize, Mr. Chairman. I was there. There was no paranoia, there was no hysteria, we were trying to get the facts, with respect, surrounding the finding of the note. That's all we were trying to do and we were doing it in a professional manner. Senator BENNETT. Well, if I can just make one quick, final observation, Mr. Chairman? Mr. Nussbaum, you are very good, and you have an explanation for Deb Gorham's testimony, and an explanation for Ms. Tripp's testimony, and an explanation for the Park Police's testimony, and an explanation for Mr. Shelton's testimony, and every one of those explanations, taken by itself, is very good. I sit back and look at the totality of the thing and I come out exactly where I did yesterday. The White House Counsel's Office has a very smooth, complete description of everything that happened and everything was done properly and everything was done in the name of privilege, and there are high legal standards that directed everything we did. The picture that comes from everybody else that dealt with the White House Counsel is entirely different. And even though you have an explanation for each particular, the overall pattern still leaves me convinced that there was a tremendous amount of disarray, a tremendous amount of scrambling around, a tremendous, amount of improvising, and that things were not as smooth and polished and careful as you now tell the Committee they were. Mr. NUSSBAUM. They were not. I agree with part of what yousay. They were not smooth and polished and careful. I mean, there were bumps and there were mistakes. I didn't run a perfect operation. I was not a perfect White House Counsel and I did not act perfectly in this period. My basic point was not that everything was done precisely correct. My basic point was that I acted in accordance with my ethical obligations and with respect, as Mr. Chertoff alluded to this morn- ing, with respect to every big decision I had to make I made the correct decision, I made the right decisions, I made decisions that "I I look back at 2 ears later that I'm proud of That's all, I'm saying. 1373 The picture that some people paint, apparently, of paranoia or hysteria or stumbling around, that's an incorrect picture. Senator BENNETT. Thank you, Mr.Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator.