Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 17, 19
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 17, 19
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 17, 1973 - Testimony of Bruce A Kehrli, Special Assistant to the President United States Senate Caucus Room, Washington DC
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 17, 19
Senator Sam ERVIN. Senator Inouye. Senator INOUYE (D-Hawaii). Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. Kehrli, according to that chart Mr. Ehrlichman is presently the chief of the domestic section .... Mr. KEHRLI. Domestic Council, yes sir. Senator INOUYE. And Mr. Haldeman is chief of the White House operation, Mr. Dean the counselor. Mr. KEHRLI. Yes sir. Senator INOUYE. At this moment? Mr. KEHRLI. No. Senator INOUYE. You have the date May the .... (MS committee seated at table) Mr. KEHRLI. Oh I see, yes sir that's right. They are still on the payroll through the 19th, which is this Sunday and that was based on an agreement that was made, in terms of trying to make sure that they had enough time to wind down their responsibilities on the White House staff. And that was determined it was a reasonable amount of time to allow a man with their responsibilities to phase out, get other people who were taking over their responsibilities briefed on what those responsibilities were and up to speed before they left. Senator INOUYE. Following up on the matter of scheduling, you've indicated that Mr. Haldeman had the final say as to who saw the President, am I correct in that? Mr. KEHRLI. Now, on occasion he would not have the final say, he would cover it with the President. Senator INOUYE. Did this extent to telephone calls also? Mr. KEHRLI. No it did not. Mr. Chapin handled the telephone calls as I remember. Senator INOUYE. Is it possible for an United States Senator to call the President and speak to him directly? Mr. KEHRLI. I don't know, I'm not that familiar with that set up. Senator INOUYE. Your chart indicates that Mr. Colson was a liaison with outside groups. Mr. KEHRLI. Yes sir. Senator INOUYE. Would you describe outside groups? Mr. KEHRLI. Veterans groups, Labor groups, groups of that nature. Senator INOUYE. Are you aware of his activities with groups that have been mentioned in the press, that you have not mentioned? Mr. KEHRLI. For instance? Senator INOUYE. It has been suggested that he has been involved in dirty trick activities. Mr. KEHRLI. No, I'm not aware of any dirty tricks. Senator INOUYE. Do you know who Mr. Colson reported to? Mr. KEHRLI. Mr. Colson reported to Mr. Haldeman for administrative purposes and on most of the things that he did, he also reported to the President on occasion. And I really can't give you a percentage breakdown on what percent he reported directly to the president, what percent he reported to Mr. Haldeman. I imagine on some occasions he may have reported to Mr. Ehrlichman, again this is something that only he knows.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 17, 19
Senator INOUYE. What was Mr. Gordon Straun's role? Mr. KEHRLI. Mr. Gordon Straun was a staff assistant to Mr. Haldeman who was in charge of liaison with the Committee to Re-Elect and the Republican National Committee. Senator INOUYE. Did Mr. Ehrlichman get copies of all political memos as indicated in an exhibit which was submitted earlier? Mr. KEHRLI. I don't know. Senator INOUYE. I have no further questions. Oh, I have one question. Mr. KEHRLI. Yes sir. Senator INOUYE. Do you know a Mr. Roy Shepard? Mr. KEHRLI. (smiling) no I don't know him. Senator INOUYE. Have you checked the files to see if he's on the payroll? Mr. KEHRLI. I know for a fact that he is not on the payroll. Senator INOUYE. If he is not on the payroll, how does one get admitted to the White House? Mr. KEHRLI. Well, I did some checking on Mr. Shepard and he was admitted because he had a pass from another government agency. Senator INOUYE. What government agency sir? Mr. KEHRLI. As I remember it was the Department of Transportation. Senator INOUYE. Is he on the payroll of the Department of Transportation? Mr. KEHRLI. I don't know. Senator INOUYE. But Mr. Shepard is not on the payroll of the White House? Mr. KEHRLI. That's correct. Senator INOUYE. Have you ever met Mr. Shepard? Mr. KEHRLI. No sir. Senator INOUYE. Were you aware that he visited one of the offices there? Mr. KEHRLI. Not before his name came up. Senator INOUYE. Alright, thank you sir.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 17, 19
Senator Sam ERVIN. Senator Weicker. Senator WEICKER, Jr. (R -CT). Thank you Mr. Chairman, just a few brief questions. Mr. Kehrli, when the last time that you talked either directly or on the telephone with either Mr. Ehrlichman or Mr. Haldeman? Mr. KEHRLI. (looks confused) Senator WEICKER. Why don't we separate the two, let me ask the question first as to Mr. Ehrlichman. Mr. KEHRLI. Okay, I think I spoke with Mr. Ehrlichman last Friday or Saturday, and I don't remember which date. Senator WEICKER. And what was the nature of, this was after he had left the White House? Mr. KEHRLI. This was after the announcement of his resignation had been made, and while he was winding down his activities at the White House. Senator WEICKER. So this was a direct meeting face to face? Mr. KEHRLI. No this was a telephone conversation. Senator WEICKER. I see, can you indicate to me the nature of that conversation? Mr. KEHRLI. We were discussing the disposition of the, his papers that had been taken from the office and held in a room. Senator WEICKER. What do you mean by the disposition of his papers, I'm afraid I don't follow you on that. Mr. KEHRLI. This was at a time when they were turning back certain papers to the FBI. (view from behind Senator Weicker of Mr. Kehrli and courtroom) Senator WEICKER. I don't understand the nature of, what was the purpose in your discussing this matter with him? Mr. KEHRLI. Well, I wanted to make sure that he was aware of the fact that they were being turned back, since they were coming out of his files. Senator WEICKER. In other words the nature was a phone conversation from you to Mr. Ehrlichman? Mr. KEHRLI. That's right. Senator WEICKER. To alert him that his files were being taken by agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). Mr. KEHRLI. That's right. One of my responsabilities is the preservation of Presidential papers, and that includes the filing system within the White House and any special filing systems that we have for especially sensitive papers. Senator WEICKER. And can you give me an indication as to his response when he was so alerted? Mr. KEHRLI. He was aware of it and said that he would check with Mr. Garmon with it. Senator WEICKER. That was the nature of that conversation? Mr. KEHRLI. That was it. Senator WEICKER. That he would check with Mr. Garmon? Mr. KEHRLI. Yes.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 17, 19
Senator WEICKER. And when was the last time that you talked to Mr. Haldeman? Mr. KEHRLI. Um, I think it was some time last week, I don't have an exact date, we were discussing what he wanted to do with his retirement benefits. Whether he wanted to convert his health insurance, things of this nature in terms of the official papers required when he resigned. Senator WEICKER. Did you make a similar phone call to Mr. Haldeman to alert him that his records also were being commandeered by agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation? Mr. KEHRLI. No, because they weren't. Senator WEICKER. In other words, nothing, no papers of Mr. Haldeman's were taken by the bureau? Mr. KEHRLI. Not that I know of. I think we're confusing something here, and that is, at one point in time all the papers were taken and put in one area and there was extra security put on them, that was the initial movement. Then after that is the discussion that I had with Mr. Ehrlichman and these were the papers that were described in a couple of newspaper articles, FBI files. Senator WEICKER. I'm a little bit confused too on this point and don't let me in any way guide you, but in other words was there some special reason why you should have alerted Mr. Ehrlichman as compared to Mr. Haldeman? Mr. KEHRLI. Well, because we're talking about two different points in time, immediately after Mr. Ehrlichman and Mr. Haldeman resigned, all of the papers within their offices and actually all of their working papers were taken and put in one room, as I understand it, and I was only told this by Mr. Garmon so that there would be no problems with any papers disappearing. That happened on the first of May or about that time. Senator WEICKER. Mmmhmm. I understand. Mr. KEHRLI. Now, we're talking about last weekend, when the FBI had requested some papers back that had been part of this group. Senator WEICKER. Right. Mr. KEHRLI. And since they had been included in Mr. Ehrlichman's files, I wanted to make sure that he was aware of the fact that they had been requested. Senator WEICKER. Did you receive a request from the FBI to assist in this matter, is that how it came to your attention? Mr. KEHRLI. No, it came to my attention because, I happened to be walking past the room where we keep the files and I noticed there was some people in the room making a log of the different papers, an inventory list. Senator WEICKER. And at that point in time then you called Mr. Ehrlichman to let him know that this was being done to his papers? Mr. KEHRLI. Yes that's right.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 17, 19
Senator WEICKER. Alright. Now, in conversations that you had with staff members of this committee, you've indicated and you've also indicated on the chart, correct me if I'm wrong, that there are basically five assistants to the President who reported directly to him. These men were John Ehrlichman, Bob Haldeman, Henry Kissinger, Clark MacGregor, and Peter Flannigan. Is that correct? Mr. KEHRLI. That's right. Senator WEICKER. And that you also indicated that Presidential Counselors Robert Finch and Donald Rumsfeld also reported directly to the President, but did not have specific operational responsabilities in the White House. Mr. KEHRLI. That's correct. Senator WEICKER. Isn't it true that the only people who had direct access to the President were Mr. Haldeman, Mr. Ehrlichman and Doctor Kissinger and that other people including Clark MacGregor and Peter Flannigan, Finch, Rumsfeld (unclear) saw the president, but only at the sufferance of one of these three men? Mr. KEHRLI. No, I would say that if they wanted to see the President, then a time would be set up based on the Presidents schedule and the presidents priorities, and that was something that Mr. Haldeman was aware of and was able to set up. On the other hand, the President at any time may have called for them or anybody else on the staff. Senator WEICKER. But, if the initiation of this contact was made by any of these individuals, they would have to go through one of these three that I've mentioned, Kissinger, Ehrlichman, or Haldeman. Mr. KEHRLI. They would go to Mr. Haldeman, to see what the president's schedule was in terms of time. Obviously, his time was more important than theirs, and in order to make sure that there was time available to see him, then they would go to Mr. Haldeman. Senator WEICKER. In other words, do you consider as a practical matter, Mr. Haldeman, Mr. Kissinger, Mr. Ehrlichman, Clark MacGregor, Peter Flannigan, Finch and Rumsfeld equals in so far as access to the President is concerned? Mr. KEHRLI. I wouldn't call them equals as far as access to the President. No, because each of them had different needs to see the president. The nature of Bob's, of Mr. Haldeman's job was such that he saw the president quite often. The nature of Mr. Rumsfelds and Mr. Finch's job was such that they didn't need to see the president that often, they didn't request to see the president that often. Senator WEICKER. Did Mr., Dr. Kissinger go through Mr. Haldeman? Mr. KEHRLI. I don't think so, and I can't say that for a fact.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 17, 19
Senator WEICKER. Now, logs are kept are they not as to those persons that see the president and that telephone the president? Mr. KEHRLI. That's correct. Senator WEICKER. And who keeps those logs? Mr. KEHRLI. Those logs are actually it's a compilation, the white house operators keep track of phone calls, and any number of people put together the log on who sees the president. It may be the military aid who's walking along and someone would walk up to the president and shake his hand and say hello and start a conversation. Well, he would be the only one present, so he would be able to put that together. The scheduling office keeps a log of his formal appointments. There is a secretary who sits outside of his office who also keeps track of other people who are called in periodically. So, it's actually a compilation of a number of different inputs that results in the final schedule, or the final listing of who saw the president. Senator WEICKER. Does Mr. Nesbitt have the responsibility of keeping logs as to who sees the president? Mr. KEHRLI. Mr. Nesbitts responsibility is in terms of the daily diary, which is just what it says a diary of the presidents activities and phone calls for that particular day. He gains inputs from various sources and combines them so that the log shows not only phone calls but also shows meetings and visits. Senator WEICKER. So this is, if there were any place, this is the one central place where you would have a fairly accurate description of both the personal meetings and the phone conversations of the president. Mr. KEHRLI. It is one place, it's not the only place. Senator WEICKER. Could you tell me what the other places are? Mr. KEHRLI. Well, they re also within central files, which is the general filing organization we have, we have an organization that keeps track of who saw the president, when they saw him, and also what correspondence has gone back and forth between them. So, that if a letter comes in to the president, we can pull the background information on it letting him know or whoever is going to be drafting a response know when this individual writing the letter saw the president last, when he wrote the president last and what the response was, if any.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 17, 19
Senator WEICKER. Alright, just two questions. First of all, where is Fred Fielding on this chart? Mr. KEHRLI. Fred Fielding was the deputy council, he was John Dean's deputy. Senator WEICKER. And on the chart here, he would be listed where? Mr. KEHRLI. He would be listed below Mr. Dean. Senator WEICKER. And had you ever worked with Mr. Fielding? Mr. KEHRLI. Yes I have. Senator WEICKER. In what capacity? Mr. KEHRLI. Well, in my capacity as staff secretary. One of my responsabilities is to make sure that any papers going to the president are thoroughly staffed, and that includes a legal opinion. And Mr. Fielding was often the contact, for these matters. Senator WEICKER. And then my last question Mr. Kehrli is, at the time of the '72 campaign or prior to it, were there any changes of your duties or any additional duties which were given to you which were pacipitated by the campaign? Mr. KEHRLI. No. In January 1972 I changed jobs, January One. And that's when I went from being a staff assistant to Mr. Haldeman into my present position of staff secretary. Senator WEICKER. But at no time did you aquire any duties that related to the campaign? Mr. KEHRLI. No. Senator WEICKER. I have no further questions Mr. Chairman.