Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, Testimony of James W McCord (Jim McCord)
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, Testimony of James W McCord (Jim McCord)
Master 10361 Part 2 Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 18, 1973. Testimony of James W McCord (Jim McCord) accompanied by Bernard Fensterwald Jr, Counsel Caucus Room, Russell Senate Office Building, Washington DC
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, Testimony of James W McCord (Jim McCord)
Around 4:30 p.m. that afternoon, January 8, while waiting for a taxi after the court session, Bernard Barker asked my attorneys and me if he could ride in the cab with us to Bittman's office, which we agreed to. There, he got out of the cab and went up towards Bittman's office. I had been under the impression during the cab ride that Bittman was going to talk to both Barker and me jointly and became angered at what seemed to me I can finish the statement, sir, if you want. I am giving opinion. If you want opinion, I will finish the statement. If you want me to delete opinion, I will not finish the statement. I am setting forth the facts and what was going through my mind at the time. Samuel Dash, attorney. Continue to read the statement, please. Senator Howard Baker (R Tennessee). I think it is fine, Mr. McCord for you to go ahead and read the statement, but once again, to the extent that you can, would you identify as you go along those things attributed to other people, that you do not know at firsthand? I have no objection, of course, to your stating what went through your mind. Your state of mind is significant in terms of your conduct, not necessarily in terms of the facts themselves. But it is relevant to this committee's inquiry as it relates to your conduct at one point or the other. The question I made a few moments ago was that while some of your testimony will be hearsay in the strict sense, simply identify those parts, that information which you give us in this statement, which you received secondhand. James McCord. Most respectfully, sir, I shall try to do so. What I am reading now is firsthand. Senator Howard Baker (R Tennessee). Thank you.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, Testimony of James W McCord (Jim McCord)
James McCord. The sentence that I began: Around 4:30 p.m. that afternoon, January 8, while waiting for a taxi after the court session, Bernard Barker asked my attorneys and me if he could ride in the cab with us to Bittman's office, which we agreed to. There, he got out of the cab and went up toward Bittman's office which I agreed to. There he got out of the cab and went up towards Bittman s office. I had been under the impression during the cab ride that Bittman was going to talk to both Barker and me jointly and became angered at what seemed to me to be the arrogance and audacity of another man's lawyer calling in two other lawyer's clients and pitching them for the White House. Alch saw my anger and took me aside for about a half hour after the cab arrived in front of Bittman's office, and let Barker go up alone.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, Testimony of James W McCord (Jim McCord)
About 5 p.m. we went up to Bittman's office. There Alch disappeared with Bittman and I sat alone in Bittman's office for a period of time, became irritated, and went next door where Bernard Shankman and Austin Mittler, attorneys for me and Hunt respectively, were talking about legitimate legal matters. I might add at this point parenthetically, I have no knowledge whatever that either Bernard Shankman or Austin Mittler had any knowledge whatever of the events which I am discussing in this memorandum. Alch finally came back, took me aside and said that Bittman told him I would be called that same night by a friend I had known from the White House. Senator Howard Baker (R Tennessee). Now, at that point, I take it that, that is secondhand information? Senator Sam Ervin (D North Carolina). That is testimony of what he says that his lawyer told him Mr. Bittman said. Of course, as far as Bittman is concerned and the White House is concerned, it is hearsay, but his own lawyer s knowledge. Senator Howard Baker (R Tennessee). I entirely agree, Mr. Chairman. The point I am making is I want to separate the wheat from the chaff and what his lawyer told him clearly is primary evidence. What his lawyer told him that someone else told him is clearly hearsay evidence. And once again, I am not trying to exclude it, I wish simply to identify it as we go along. James McCord. I believe I stated it, sir, as it occurred, which was this was a statement by Mr. Alch. My statement was that: Mr. Alch finally came back, took me aside and said that Mr. Bittman had told him that I would be called that same night by a friend I had known from the White House. I assumed this would be John Caulfield who had originally recruited me for the Committee for the Re-election of the President position.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, Testimony of James W McCord (Jim McCord)
About 12:30 p.m. that same evening, I received a call from an unidentified individual who said that Caulfield was out of town and asked me to go to a pay phone booth near the Blue Fountain Inn on Route 355 near my residence, where he had a message for me from Caulfield. There the same individual called me and read the following message: Plead guilty. One year is a long time. You will get Executive clemency. Your family will be taken care of and when you get out you will be rehabilitated and a job will be found for you. Don't take immunity when called before the grand jury." Samuel Dash, attorney. Now, Mr. McCord, did you recognize that voice at all? Do you know who was speaking to you on the telephone? James McCord. I do not know who the man was. The voice I heard over the telephone before in previous calls. Samuel Dash, attorney. And therefore it is not your testimony from your reading that statement, it was Mr. Caulfield who was speaking to you? James McCord. That is correct. Samuel Dash, attorney. And, therefore, it is somebody else telling you, you believe that he was repeating a statement Mr. Caulfield but not a direct statement to you from Mr. Caulfield? James McCord. He so stated that he was repeating a statement from Mr. Caulfield and he repeated the statement twice, that's correct. Samuel Dash, attorney. Right. Will you continue please?
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, Testimony of James W McCord (Jim McCord)
Senator Edward Gurney (R - Florida). Can we find out more about these other calls where he heard this same voice? What were they, what did they involve, when were they? James McCord. Sir, I can give them to you now or at the end of the statement, as you prefer. I am willing to do either that the committee desires. Senator Edward Gurney (R - Florida). Well, they're very important, I would like to have them now. If that's acceptable to the Chairman. Senator Sam Ervin (D North Carolina). Senator, if he reads the statement, he states in his statement, it is on the 8th of January and first he said that his lawyer, Mr. Alch, told him that Bittman said he would receive a call from a friend he had known from the White House and he said at 12:30 pm the same day, that is after midnight on the January 8, that he received this phone call from an unidentified individual. Senator Edward Gurney (R - Florida). Yes, Mr. Chairman, what he also said was that he recognized the voice because he had heard it in previous phone calls and my question was when and what were these previous phone calls about. This is a very important matter. James McCord. There were two or three previous phone calls. The story gets a bit complex. I will be glad to do it either way you prefer. I believe it would have more continuity to finish the statement first, but if you desire to do it now we'll do so. Samuel Dash, attorney. To clarify it for Senator Gurney, do you know the voice, do you know the identity? James McCord. I heard the voice before, I do not know the identity of the man who called. Senator Howard Baker (R Tennessee). I think it won t take long to do what Senator Gurney wishes to do, what he is talking about. I think it easier to go ahead with the question then it is to argue about it. I would suggest that Senator Gurney ask that limited question at this time.