Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, Testimony of James W McCord (Jim McCord)
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, Testimony of James W McCord (Jim McCord)
Master 10361 Part 2 Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 18, 1973. Testimony of James W McCord (Jim McCord) accompanied by Bernard Fensterwald Jr, Counsel Caucus Room, Russell Senate Office Building, Washington DC
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, Testimony of James W McCord (Jim McCord)
Senator Edward Gurney (R Florida). Would you proceed. James McCord. Certainly, I'd be glad to. Sometime in July, 1972, shortly after I got out of jail, which was in June 1972, about mid-day there was a note in my mailbox at my residence and when I opened the letter, which had not been stamped nor sent through the mails, it was a note from Jack Caulfield signed "Jack" which said, "Go to the phone booth on Route 355 near your home," and he gave three alternate times at which I could appear at the phone booth for a telephone call from him. To the best of my recollection, one of those times was very shortly thereafter, an hour or two later, and another time was the next day and that seems to me that the third time was the following evening.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, Testimony of James W McCord (Jim McCord)
I went to the telephone, to that telephone booth on Route 355 that afternoon, the same afternoon, as I best recall, and I heard the voice that I have referred to in this memorandum of today. I do not know the individual's identity. He had an accent that I would refer to as a New York accent. He said that he had formerly worked for Jack Caulfield. He said, "I am a friend of Jack's. I formerly worked with him. Jack will want to talk with you shortly. He will be in touch with you soon." I received a call subsequently from Mr. Caulfield. To the best of my recollection it came to my home first and it said, "Go to the same phone booth on Route 355," which I did. And there Mr. Caulfield told me that he was going overseas in a few days. He said, If you have any problems, call my home and leave word and I will call you back from overseas to your residence." He said, "When you call my home ask for Mr. Watson." Senator Edward Gurney (R Florida). Mr. Watson? James McCord. Watson. He said, also, "After my return if you ever need to call me at my office," he gave a number, the office number and he said, "Simply leave word that Mr. Watson is calling." So it was a name that both of us were to use, my name and his name. I did not contact him during the next 30 days. And I next heard from him, to the best of my recollection sometime in September 1972, on a Sunday afternoon. I can't recall the exact date but I do recall that Mr. Clark MacGregor, then the head of the Committee for the Re-Election of the President, had just finished a television appearance on one of the talk programs such as Meet the Press and Mr. Caulfield called me at home and again asked that I go to the telephone booth on Route 355, which I did.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, Testimony of James W McCord (Jim McCord)
He stated that he had trouble getting my home number because it was an unlisted number, and he stated, "We are worried about you." This is Mr. Caulfield's statement. And he went on then to read briefly the words of a deposition which he planned to give to the Democratic National Committee. I had read in the papers a few days before that he had been scheduled as a witness before the Democratic National Committee. And he read the deposition to me indicating that this was, in effect, what he planned to say in the deposition. There was some reference during the conversation to something doing with a double agent in quotes. Mr. Clark MacGregor, as I recall, in his television appearance had referred to the possibility of there being a double agent in the Watergate operation and the inference was that it was Mr. Baldwin. And I told Mr. Caulfield that so far as I was concerned whoever had drawn that conclusion had drawn an absolutely erroneous conclusion that I had seen absolutely nothing that would indicate such and I simply wanted to go on the record with Mr. Caulfield to that effect.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, Testimony of James W McCord (Jim McCord)
Senator Edward Gurney (R Florida). We do want to get back to the statement but, in short, what you are saying is that Mr. Caulfield's friend Watson by name is the man whose voice you heard? James McCord. No, sir, that s most respectfully, that is not what I said, sir. Senator Edward Gurney (R Florida). Go on. James McCord. I believe Mr. Caulfield used the name Watson. It was not his friend. Senator Edward Gurney (R Florida). I see. James McCord. Yes, sir. Senator Edward Gurney (R Florida). All right. How many times did you hear this unidentified voice? James McCord. To the best of my recollection I heard the voice prior to the January call two or three times. I cannot be absolutely sure but at least twice before January. Senator Edward Gurney (R Florida). Were these in connection with contacts with Caulfield? James McCord. Always. Senator Edward Gurney (R Florida). Yes. I what I meant. James McCord. Yes, Sir. Senator Edward Gurney (R Florida). Thank you.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, Testimony of James W McCord (Jim McCord)
Samuel Dash, attorney. Now, will you proceed with the statement from where you left off, Mr. McCord. And I guess the prior sentence so we can have continuity. James McCord. I believe my last sentence that I read was the same message was once again repeated, obviously read. I believe that appears in the statement you have on page 3. The next sentence was that: I told the caller I would not discuss such matters over the telephone. And he stated that Caulfield was out of town. On Wednesday evening, January 10, 1973 the same party, to the best of my recollection, called and told me by phone that Jack would want to talk with me by phone on Thursday night, the following night, January 11, when he got back into town and requested that I go to the same phone booth on Route 355 near the Blue Fountain Inn. He also conveyed instructions regarding a personal meeting with Mr. Caulfield on Friday night, January 12.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, Testimony of James W McCord (Jim McCord)
On Thursday evening, January 11, the same party called me at home and told me that Caulfield's plane was late and that he, speaking of Caulfield, wanted to meet with me personally the same evening that is Thursday evening, after arrival. I told him that I would not do so but would meet with him Friday night if he desired. Later that evening, the same evening, Thursday evening, about 9:30 p.m., Caulfield called me on my home phone and insisted on talking with me but my family refused to let him do so, since I was asleep. On Friday night, January 12 from about 7 p.m. to 7:30 p.m., I met with Caulfield at the second overlook that is overlooking the Potomac it s a parking area for looking at the Potomac River on George Washington Parkway in Virginia. Samuel Dash, attorney. Mr. McCord, how did that meeting get arranged, how did you know to go there? James McCord. As previously stated, I believe it was stated in the Wednesday call at which this unidentified party had said Caulfield would want to meet with me personally and he said on Friday night and go to the second overlook on George Washington Parkway and he specified the time and that is what I followed through with.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, Testimony of James W McCord (Jim McCord)
I met with Caulfield at the second overlook on George Washington Parkway, that is the second one leaving Washington and going out to Virginia and talked with him in his car, in his automobile. Caulfield advised that he had been attending a law enforcement meeting in San Clemente, California and had just returned. I advised him that I had no objection to meeting with him to tell him my frame of mind but that I had no intention of taking Executive clemency or pleading guilty that I had come to the meeting at his request and not of my own, and I was glad to tell him my views. He said that the offer of Executive clemency which he was passing along and of support while in prison and rehabilitation and help toward a job later was a sincere offer." He explained that he had been asked to convey this message to me and he was only doing what he was told to do. He repeated this last statement several times during the course of the meeting we had then and I might add during subsequent meetings which he and I had.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, Testimony of James W McCord (Jim McCord)
My response was that I would not even discuss Executive clemency or pleading guilty and remaining silent, but I was glad to talk with him, so that there was no misunderstanding on anyone's part about it. I might explain that the trial was going on during this period, this was the first week of the trial which began on January 8. Caulfield stated that he was carrying the message of Executive clemency to me "from the very highest levels of the White House." He stated that the President of the United States was in Key Biscayne, Florida that weekend, referring to the weekend following January 8, following meeting that we were in then, that the President had been told of the forthcoming meeting with me and would be immediately told of the results of the meeting. Senator Sam Ervin (D North Carolina). Now the same rule previously announced that this evidence is competent to show what, if anything, John Caulfield did to induce Mr. McCord to plead guilty and keep silent-it is not any evidence at the present state of the hearing that connects or that makes any indication whatever and has any relevancy as to the President. James McCord. Precisely, yes sir.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, Testimony of James W McCord (Jim McCord)
James McCord. He further stated that "I may have a message to you at our next meeting from the President himself." I advised Caulfield that I had seen the list of witnesses for the trial and had seen Jeb Marauder s name appearing as a Government witness. I advised him that it was clear then that Magruder was going to perjure himself and that we were not going to get a fair trial. Further, I told him that it was clear that some of those involved in the Watergate case were going to trial, and others were going to be covered for. I was referring to John Mitchell, John Dean, and Magruder. And I so named those individuals incidentally in the conversation and I said that this was not my idea of American justice. I further Senator Sam Ervin (D North Carolina). The same ruling applies so far as John Mitchell, John Dean, and Magruder are concerned, that is that it does not connect them, legally speaking. James McCord. Yes, sir.