Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Master 10362 Part 2 Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 18, 1973 - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) Caucus Room, Russell Senate Office Building, Washington DC
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Senator Howard BAKER (R-TN). Now, just one or two more questions, I see the chairman looking at his watch over here and I don't want to run excessively long. I'll have other questions as the second round of inquiries starts, but let me try to close out this line of questioning this way. First, did you ever conduct electronic surveillance or clandestine activities against anyone other than the DNC, the Democratic National Committee at the Watergate complex, the McGovern headquarters which you've already described. Mr. James McCORD. No. Senator BAKER. Mr. Baldwin, I mean Mr. McCord please tell me whether or not you knew that this sort of activity was illegal. Mr. McCORD. I knew certain things that came to me, at the beginning of the operation and early in the operation, which indicated that it might be legal, may well be legal and I was so advised. Senator BAKER. By whom? Mr. McCORD. First of all, if I may explain ....coming through Mr. Liddy, and coming through my knowledge of the Attorney General, who was then Attorney General, and that was that the Attorney General first of all had the authority, on his own signature to approve wire-tapping within the United States for either national security reasons or for domestic security reasons. Senator BAKER. What was your motivation? Why did you do this? Mr. McCORD. There were several motivations, but the basic, one of the motivations was the fact that this man, the Attorney General had approved it in his offices over a series of meetings in which he had obviously given careful consideration to it, while he was a top legal officer of the United States government and that the council to the President had sat in with him during such discussions. The fact that we were, I was advised that it was within the attorney general's view and authority to authorize such operations, if it were in the national interest to do so. Senator BAKER. Did you believe that? Mr. McCORD. I believed that he had the authority to do it, I believed several things. Not only was I told certain things, pertaining to some matters I previously testified to, to this committee regarding Las Vegas and an incident there, but I was also aware that many things came over the attorney generals desk that I was not privy to, that Mr. Liddy was not privy to, but which the Attorney General was privy to, matters which might come to him through highly sensitive sources including wire tap information, which might provide a justification for such an operation, a justification beyond what was known to me. I can put in conversely as well ....I knew that, I felt that the attorney general, in his position as the top legal officer, if this operation were clearly illegal would turn it down out of hand, that he would have no trouble making a decision on the matter immediately. I knew from previous contact with him that he was a very decisive man, that he did not agonize over decisions and yet apparently he took this one under careful consideration and considered it for some thirty days in making a decision. And frankly, I had the, my conclusion was that he took it as well to higher authority and got a final approval from his superior before embarking upon this task, quite candidly and quite frankly this is exactly my motivation, my reason. A basic motivation of mine for being involved. Senator BAKER. This was your assumption, or your basis for judgment that the Attorney General must have done that? Do you have any evidence or any information that he did do that? Mr. McCORD. The evidence that the council to the President sat in with him ..... Senator BAKER. Very good. Mr. McCORD. ....on the meetings of this, and therefore that both the White House was represented and the Attorney General of the United States was represented in this decision, and that the thirty day delay to me, I drew the conclusion that the attorney general himself had conveyed the decision to his own superior, for a final decision. Senator BAKER. You spoke of a thirty day period in your earlier testimony, is this the same 30 day period? Mr. McCORD. It's a thirty day period ..... Senator BAKER. In your previous testimony you indicated, I thought you had said that you thought about this for 30 days before you did it, but I'm not sure that was the testimony. Is this the same thirty day period you're speaking of when you think the Attorney General looked into it, for thirty days before it was authorized? Mr. McCORD. Yes, that's correct sir. Senator BAKER. Alright, Mr. Chairman I have other questions, but I'll defer to my colleagues for the time being.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Senator Sam ERVIN. Senator Talmadge. Senator Herman TALMADGE (D-GA). Mr. Chairman, Mr. McCord, you have made some very serious charges implicating the President of the United States as probably an accessory after the fact, former Attorney General of the United States is probably an accessory before the fact, and perhaps guilty of a conspiracy involving the watergate bugging. Your testimony was predicated upon hearsay, it would not be admitted in a court of law. And before this committee can accept it as authentic I think, it will require a good deal of corroboration. Now you testified this morning that Mr. Caulfield reported to offer executive clemency to you. Is that correct? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator TALMADGE. Anyone else approach you about executive clemency besides Mr. Caulfield? Mr. McCORD. I had mentioned Mr. Hunt. Senator TALMADGE. That's two, anyone else? Mr. McCORD. Mrs. Hunt conveyed a message from Mr. Hunt, she was obviously not speaking for anyone for herself, she was conveying it for him and so stated. Senator TALMADGE. Did anyone besides Mr. Hunt and Mr. Caulfield approach you on the question of executive clemency? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator TALMADGE. Who? Mr. McCORD. My attorney Gerald Alch. (spells it out ALCH) Mr. Alch Senator TALMADGE. Gerald Hawkins? Mr. McCORD. Alch. ALCH Senator TALMADGE. ALT Mr. McCORD. ALCH Senator TALMADGE. ALCH, do you know who approached your lawyer about executive clemency? Mr. McCORD. No sir. Senator TALMADGE. So your testimony is, that three different individuals approached you on the idea that you would plead guilty and keep quiet and as a result thereof you could expect executive clemency, is that correct? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir, and I believe I mentioned a message conveyed, which mentioned executive clemency by Mr. Alch on January 8th from another individual. Senator TALMADGE. Who was that individual? Mr. McCORD. Mr. William Bittman. (spells BITTMAN) Senator TALMADGE. William Bittman. Mr. McCORD. Yes. Senator TALMADGE. Who is he? Mr. McCORD. He was the attorney for Mr. Hunt. Senator TALMADGE. Now you testified this morning about several different meetings and conversations with Mr. Caulfield. You also testified that Mr. Caulfield, I believe placed in your mailbox a note that was not sent through the U.S. Postal service, not post law and was signed Jack, is that correct? Mr. McCORD. I believe sir that's basically correct, I think I said that the note was placed by another individual who said he was a friend of Mr. Caulfield. Senator TALMADGE. The note was not from Mr. Caulfield? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir, the note was from Mr. Caulfield, but the individual that subsequently talked to me on the phone first, this unidentified stranger, said that he himself, the stranger had placed the note in my mailbox for Jack and it was signed by Jack. Senator TALMADGE. From Mr. Caulfield ..... Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator TALMADGE. ....and the note was signed, Jack. Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator TALMADGE. And did you receive that note? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator TALMADGE. You have that note now? Mr. McCORD. No sir. Senator TALMADGE. Do you know where it is? Mr. McCORD. No sir. Senator TALMADGE. Why did you destroy it? Mr. McCORD. Quite frankly sir, I can not recall. There had been so many events since that date, that I suspect it was simply thrown out in the trash. Senator TALMADGE. What was the subject of that note? Mr. McCORD. The subject said please go to phone booth on route 355, on one of three different times. That one day, the day of the note and two alternate dates, the following day and I did so. Senator TALMADGE. Now, you've also implicated the former Attorney General and Mr. Mitchell in your testimony, as proven and perhaps helping plan, at least being an accessory before the fact on the watergate bugging. Did you ever have any conversations with Mr. Mitchell yourself about that operation? Mr. McCORD. About the watergate operation itself, no sir. Senator TALMADGE. Or any other surveillance of espionage? Mr. McCORD. No sir. Senator TALMADGE. Neither about watergate nor any other espionage activity? Mr. McCORD. No sir. Senator TALMADGE. And how many different individuals talked to you and purported to speak for Mr. Mitchell about the watergate operation or any other bugging operation? Mr. McCORD. Speaking for Mr. Mitchell, purportedly Mr. Liddy only, speaking for Mr. Mitchell. Senator TALMADGE. Alright, Liddy is one. Who else besides? Mr. McCORD. Mr. Hunt raised the name of Mr. Mitchell in the context that I testified to this morning sir. Senator TALMADGE. Both Liddy and Hunt told you that this operation had been approved by Mr. Mitchell. Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator TALMADGE. Any others besides those two? Mr. McCORD. No sir.