Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Master 10363 Part 1 Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 18, 1973 - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) Caucus Room, Russell Senate Office Building, Washington DC
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Senator Sam ERVIN. Senator Inouye. Senator Daniel INOUYE (D-HI). Mr. McCord, I have been most impressed by your background. You have received two academic degrees from two different universities, you are a colonel in the air force reserve, you ve had many distinguished service of many years with the FBI, and a very distinguished service with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA). And from that I believe I can assume that you're better versed than the man on the street when if comes to what is legal and what is not legal. Is that assumption correct sir? Mr. James McCORD. I'm not a lawyer as I testified to, I have a working knowledge of the law, yes sir. Senator INOUYE. You're acquainted with what national security is all about? Mr. McCORD. I certainly am. Senator INOUYE. I would assume that being involved in the government for all these years that your concern with our activities would be a bit more acute than the average citizen. For example, were you aware that Mr. Mitchell was the chief campaign manager in the 1968 election? Mr. McCORD. I believe I heard that yes sir. Senator INOUYE. Were you aware at the time that you were discussing the possibility of these clandestine activities that Mr. Mitchell was considering going over to the committee to be chairman of that committee? Mr. McCORD. Oh yes sir. Senator INOUYE. Were you aware at the time of your discussion when he was attorney general that he was actually in control of the campaign activities? Mr. McCORD. I did not know the full extent to which he was in control, I knew that there were meeting with him by senior people from the committee for the re-election of the president. Senator INOUYE. You knew that he was actively involved in matters political? Mr. McCORD. Oh yes. Senator INOUYE. And you're aware that the democratic national committee was a political organization? Mr. McCORD. Beyond any question. Senator INOUYE. And you're aware that Mr. Muskie, Mr. McGovern were also political citizens? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator INOUYE. That they were seeking the Presidency of the United States? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator INOUYE. You're also aware that Mr. O'Brien was a politician? Mr. McCORD. Yes indeed. Senator INOUYE. Now, I gather from your prior testimony that you had received instructions on taking pictures. Mr. McCORD. No sir. Senator INOUYE. Someone in your group had instructions. Mr. McCORD. One of the members at least, yes sir several. Senator INOUYE. What sort of pictures did you take? Mr. McCORD. I do not know sir, I didn't see them. Senator INOUYE. You didn't see any copies? Mr. McCORD. No sir. Senator INOUYE. You didn't hear of any instructions? Mr. McCORD. In a general sense, I don't know the specific targets, but yes I heard them discussed by Mr. Hunt with the team members generally, and I heard the team members refer to them, but I do not have specifics as to what they were, what was copied. Senator INOUYE. Did you have any reason to suspect that Mr. McGovern, Mr. Muskie or Mr. O'Brien were involved in activities that were inimitable to the united states and contrary with national security? To be more specific, to overthrow the government? (interior of courtroom, man un-hooks velvet rope, walks through and locks rope again behind him) Mr. McCORD. No, I previously referred to a comment the Mr. Liddy made to me in connection with the Las Vegas trip, two trips that he was making to this committee.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Senator INOUYE. You had reason to believe that these men were involved in activities which would be dangerous to the existence to the United States of America? Mr. McCORD. No sir. Senator INOUYE. Then why did you carry on these activities, you're well aware of what national security was all about. Were they involved in syndicated criminal activity? Mr. McCORD. (confers with his lawyer) I can go into the reasons behind some of the motivations that I had, if you want me to do so sir which pertain to testimony I've previously given relating to the .... Senator INOUYE. I believe it's very important because I for one would like to know why the sudden change of heart? Mr. McCORD. In what sir? Senator INOUYE. In being concerned about justice and legality. (pauses, stares at Senator Inouye) 'Cause I can't believe that you were not aware of the illegality of all these acts, and that these were political activities. Mr. McCORD. I've admitted sir, yes sir I've admitted that the acts were both wrong on my part, it was a mistake on my part. I stated that in the beginning and I restated at this time that my motivation ..... Senator INOUYE. Were you aware at the time you were in the sixth floor of the watergate that it was illegal? Mr. McCORD. (confers again with his lawyer) Yes, of course. Senator INOUYE. Why did you, as one who has served this country so well, as a colonel in the air force, distinguished service in the FBI and CIA decide to carry out these illegal acts? The only thing you've done wrong so far is to receive a traffic ticket. Mr. McCORD. Sir, I can repeat my situation that lead me into the decision to join in this operation which involved a series of discussions which involved the White House itself, the council to the president, that top lawyer, involved the top lawyer of the committee for the re-election of the president and involved the attorney general himself in his capacity as attorney general of the United States, who had the authority. Senator INOUYE. Were you aware .... Mr. McCORD. I realized that acts are illegal, that these acts are illegal under normal circumstances, but that he has a power and authority to make them legal by his oral approval of it, and in particular by what I was convinced was his approval ..... Senator INOUYE. But you knew that the attorney general was soon to become chairman of the committee to re-elect the president. Mr. McCORD. That I was aware of, but I was also aware that the matter had been approved while he was attorney general, had been considered while he was attorney general, had been considered jointly with the council to the president of the united states while he was attorney general. Senator INOUYE. And you knew then on all the front pages of the United States press you had comments about Mr. Mitchell to become soon the chairman of this party. Mr. McCORD. Yes sir, sure. Senator INOUYE. So you knew that his activities may be political in nature. Mr. McCORD. They very well may be and part of the reason attributed to the operation itself was political, no question about it. But, I previously stated as well that I was convinced that over his, I knew that over his desk came many matters which I had no knowledge of and in particular I was concerned about violence and demonstrations, particularly violence which already were being reported to occur, that were planned to be occurred, to take place at the Republican National Convention in Miami. We had many reports of that, first of all in the convention in San Diego upwards of a quarter of a million people. I was also aware that the attorney general in his capacity had very broad access to information which I felt I might not be privy to, Mr. Liddy might not be privy to, but would possibly have a bearing upon the relationship and the association of some of these demonstrators to certain members of either the democratic national committee or to the McGovern headquarters and in fact one of the groups now under indictment in Tallahassee Florida did in fact have an office within the democratic national committee.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Senator INOUYE. Was it your belief that people like Mr. O'Brien, Mr. McGovern and Mr. Muskie were involved in a conspiracy to plan violence? Mr. McCORD. No sir. Senator INOUYE. Where was the national security involved as far as these three men were concerned? (James McCord speaks with his lawyer again, long period of time) Mr. McCORD. Sir, I can restate what I previously stated before this committee in terms of violence that had already occurred, which involved bombings in a couple of states, which involved violence and demonstrations against our committee, which involved bomb threats against the committee to re-elect the president, which involved the evacuation of the building, which involved threats against the personal lives of Mr. Mitchell and Mrs. Mitchell themselves, I've recited those in considerable detail concerning the violence that was planned for the republican national committee and some of which was reported as early as December 1971 to be targeted against the committee for the re-election of the president. We had reports that there were within both groups, the McGovern headquarters and the democratic national committee headquarters some of the staff members who were working closely with some of the violence oriented groups and as I previously testified to that we, that part of the information we expected to obtain from the wire-tap itself would have to do with calls and conversations in coordination between such groups and staff members in the democratic national committee. That was not the only purpose of the wire-tap, I understood that. Part of the purpose was political intelligence. Political intelligence for the committee for the re-election of the president and the white house, out of the democratic national committee and out of the McGovern headquarters. But, in terms of my own motivation this was one factor.