Watergate Hearings - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) May 22, 1973
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) May 22, 1973
Watergate Hearings - Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 22, 1973 - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) Caucus Room, Russell Senate Office Building, Washington DC
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) May 22, 1973
Senator Howard BAKER. I hope we are coming close to the end of your rather extended testimony. Senator Montoya. Senator Joseph MONTOYA (D-NM). Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. McCord, with respect to your suspicion that your phone had. been tapped at your home did you conduct any investigation around your premises to determine whether there was actually a phone tap? Mr. McCORD. Yes, sir. Senator MONTOYA. And what did you find? Mr. McCORD. I had some equipment in Sept 1972, that normally when you go through a particular procedure with it if there is an extension, a telephone extension off of the phone you are testing or if certain types of devices are being used on the line there is an alarm that is sounded somewhat like a buzzer. And I would make these tests periodically through the fall of the year & it would go into the alarm during some of the tests. There were also many phone calls that had some very unusual things that occurred when a call would come in, in which we would hear an extension be picked up shortly after the call and other things. Senator MONTOYA. Permit me to ask you this question, then, on the basis of your investigation, are you concluding definitely that your phone had been tapped? Mr. McCORD. I had no doubt then, sir, and I have no doubt now. Senator MONTOYA. Were you also under the impression that as you spoke to other parties that your conversations may have been recorded during the time you communicated with anybody? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator MONTOYA. About this case? Mr. MCCORD. About this case, yes sir. Senator MONTOYA. On how Many occasions did you suspect this or were you certain that this occurred? Mr. MCCORD. I Would say at least a half dozen times, perhaps more during September and October, particularly of 1972. Senator MONTOYA. And when you mentioned these things to Mr. Caulfield, you indicated that you cited only two instances? McCORD. I referred to the two specific calls I was concerned about but I told him also about all these other things that had been happening that led me to believe that the phone was tapped. Senator MONTOYA. Did you complain to anyone else? Mr. McCORD. I made a lot of complaints to my lawyer in terms of filing motions, to Mr. Bitman when I discussed it with him. These motions went in the record. Senator MONTOYA. Did you allege these occurrences in your motions? Mr. McCORD. Yes, sir.
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) May 22, 1973
Senator MONTOYA. Now, with respect to your statements in your previous testimony that you were under the impression that the President knew of the clemency offer, would you please refresh my memory as to the actual conversations that led you into this belief? Mr. McCORD. Yes, sir. The information that and knowledge that led me to believe stemmed w/ conversations, stemmed from conversations w/ Mr. Liddy, Gordon Liddy - in Jan & Feb 1972, in which he told me about the meetings with the Attorney General in the AG's offices w/ Mr. Dean present in which the operation was deliberately he stated at length that the pros & cons of the operation were discussed by those present, presumably meaning the advantages & disadvantages of them in what appeared to be the deliberate consideration, careful consideration, given to the operation by the Attorney General. I believe I stated that there was a 30-day delay which to me seemed quite significant. I believe I stated that the Attorney General was in my opinion, a very decisive man. Senator MONTOYA. Mr. McCord, I do not know whether you understood my question. But we are going back to Jan 1972, in relating what transpired there. My question was: What led you to believe that the offer of clemency had the endorsement or approval of the President? Mr. MCCORD. I'm sorry sir, I misunderstood the question. The statements from Mr. Caulfield to me. Senator MONTOYA. Will you relate those statements again? Mr. MCCORD. Yes, sir. Mr. Caulfield stated that he was carrying the message of Executive clemency to me. Senator MONTOYA. Did he state so, specifically? Mr. MCCORD. Yes, sir. "From the very highest levels of the White House," these were his exact words. He stated that the President of the United States was in Key Biscayne, Florida that weekend, that he already had been told of the forthcoming meeting with me. This was, I believe, on Friday, Jan 12th, that the President had been told about the forthcoming meeting with me & would be immediately told of the results of the meeting. Senator MONTOYA. Did you check with Mr. Liddy after your meetings to ascertain whether or not the offer and your response had been communicated to the President? Was there any follow-up on your part? Mr. McCORD. With Mr. Liddy, sir? Senator MONTOYA. With Mr. Caulfield. Mr. McCORD. Mr. Caulfield? I would like to answer the question this way, if I may. He told me that the results of the meetings would be communicated with the President, that meeting of January 12, that Friday, that the results of the meeting he and I were then having, was then having, would be communicated to the President, and he said, "I may have a message to you at our next meeting from the President himself." This is an exact quote. Senator MONTOYA. Did you ever receive a message through Mr. Caulfield purporting to be a communication from the President? Mr. McCORD. He came back to me at subsequent meetings discussing Executive clemency and a large number of other matters. He did not specifically state that the President said them.
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) May 22, 1973
Senator MONTOYA. Now, you mentioned that you received a note in your box from Mr. Caulfield which was signed "Jack". You also mentioned a letter that you wrote to Mr. Caulfield which you addressed "Dear Jack". Now, were you on a first-name basis with Jack Caulfield? Mr. McCORD. Yes, Sir. Senator MONTOYA. How long have you known him? Mr. McCORD. I first met him when he contacted me about the job at Commitee to Re-elect the President in September, that was my first meeting with him, first time I'd met him. Senator MONTOYA. Was he the only one connected either with the White House or the committee to ask you to come to work? Mr. McCORD. No sir, the first person that contacted me conveyed a message to me that - the first person was an individual in the Secret Service that I had known & he said that there was a possibility of a position open in campaign security work during 1972 campaign and did I have any interest. My answer was, this gentleman called me by phone in Sept 1972, in about a 1-2-minute conversation, my answer was I would have liked to have heard more about it. He said, well, you may be getting a call. I shortly did receive a call from Mr. Caulfield. Senator MONTOYA. Who was that person in the Secret Service? Mr. McCORD. Mr. Alfred Wong.
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) May 22, 1973
Senator MONTOYA. Now going to the matter of receiving reports from the Internal Security Division of the Department of Justice, I do not want to belabor this point, but how many reports did you receive from this Division? Mr. McCORD. I have a little bit of trouble answering this question, b/c, Mr. Senator, the number of meetings I had with him I could probably guess at, the number of reports I saw there, separate individual reports, would be a sizable number and I could not estimate them. Senator MONTOYA. How many meetings did you have with him? Mr. McCORD. It seems to me the meetings began in late May 1972, and continued until close to June 17th. I was gone a portion of that period to Miami, Florida. Senator MONTOYA. So how many meetings would you say that is? Mr. McCORD. I would estimate a half a dozen. Senator MONTOYA. And how many reports did you see? More or less? Mr. McCORD. Probably 25 or so. Senator MONTOYA. How, many copies of reports did you take back with you? Mr. McCORD. I took none back with me, sir. Senator MONTOYA. Did you make any notes? Mr. McCORD. Yes, sir. Senator MONTOYA. And what were these reports about generally? I do not want to go into the specifics. Mr. McCORD. About planned violence in Washington and in Miami, Florida. Specifically in connection with the Republican National Convention, some in connection with the Democratic National Convention in which there were plans to forge the college press credentials that I have referred to.
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) May 22, 1973
Senator MONTOYA. Who did you deal with at the Internal Security Division? Mr. McCORD. Mainly, Mr. Lisker, Joel Lisker. Senator MONTOYA. Did you deal with others? Mr. McCORD. Mr. Martin. Senator MONTOYA. Now, did you have any access to any FBI reports? Mr. McCORD. Some of the material which I saw was referred to or identified as FBI material. Senator MONTOYA. By whom? Mr. McCORD. I believe Mr. Lisker. Senator MONTOYA. Did you check these particular reports and did you see any attribution to the FBI on the face of the reports? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir, some of them. Senator Joseph MONTOYA (D-NM). Another question that I want to clear up. You mentioned the Las Vegas trip. You mentioned that there were two trips made, either by Mr. Liddy or Mr. Hunt - which was it? Mr. McCORD. Mr. Liddy. Senator MONTOYA. One was to case the Greenspun office to determine whether or not a break-in could take place, is that correct? Mr. McCORD. Yes, sir. I understood both trips were for that purpose. Senator MONTOYA. All right, was there any actual break-in? Mr. McCORD. I do not know of any sir.