Watergate Hearings - Testimony of John Caulfield. May 23, 1973
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of John Caulfield. May 23, 1973
Master 10373 Part 1 Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 23, 1973 Testimony of John Caulfield. Caucus Room, Russell Senate Office Building, Washington DC
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of John Caulfield. May 23, 1973
Chairman Sam ERVIN (D-NC). (pounding gavel) The Committee will come to order. And I would like to re-iterate what I stated yesterday, that Mr. Caulfield is to return later and that I hope that questions at this appearance will be restricted to matters dealing with the communications between him and Mr. McCord, in respect to the question of clemency. Senator Edward GURNEY (R-FL). Mr. Chairman, may I inquire what the plan of the committee is on the witness following Mr. Caulfield? Mr. Sam DASH. Yes the witness following Mr. Caulfield will be Tony Ulasewicz, who will be the individual who has been identified as the person who made the telephone call to Mr. McCord and that he will be called specifically to testify as to that role, he too will be available Senator Gurney to come back and to testify to other matters which he has to testify before this committee. Senator GURNEY. Mr. Chairman, I understand that last evening the council interviewed the attorney, the former attorney for Mr. McCord and that his statements were in startling conflict and contrast as to what Mr. McCord told us here the other day. I would think that it would be extremely important to we get this witness on just as soon as possible and I as one committee member would like to see him on this afternoon. Because I think that his testimony is such in total contrast to what Mr. McCord said, I think he should be called just as soon as we can get him and hopefully after the recess, before we call Tony. Mr. DASH. We can do that Mr. Chairman, that would not in any way, in fact it is true that Mr. Alch did come in and did request to be called, we thought we would call him immediately after Tony Ulasewicz, but there is not reason why he could not be called immediately after Mr. Caulfield. Senator GURNEY. I wish he might.
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of John Caulfield. May 23, 1973
Do Not Use Lehrer voiceover. WS committee members seated at table, Mr. Dash seen whispering in Chairman Ervin's ear, Senator Baker covers microphone with his hand.
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of John Caulfield. May 23, 1973
Senator Howard BAKER (R-TN). Mr. Chairman, let me make a suggestion if I may, I think Senator Gurney's point is well taken however, in the interest of continuity and with in keeping with the preparation that the committee's made let me make an alternative suggestion if I may. Let's finish with Mr. Caulfield today Mr. Chairman, I would suggest which I think we can do in a reasonably short period of time. Since Mr. Caulfield I understand is agreeable to returning to explore other matters not directly related to the subject matter of his testimony thus far. That we go forward with the next witness who is... Mr. DASH. Tony Ulasewicz and I think it only should take about ten to fifteen minutes. Senator BAKER. And if we finish that, then move on to Mr. Alch, that would preserve some assemblance of the continuity and still I believe accomplish Senator Gurney's request, that would almost assure that Mr. Alch would be on the stand today I think. Senator GURNEY. Well, that of course is what I'm trying to do, to assure that he does get on the stand. We have taken sometimes a good deal of time in the questioning, in fact I've used my own fair share, but I do think it's awfully important that we get Mr. Alch on today, because his testimony is going to be in such sharp contrast and contradiction to what we learned from Mr. McCord earlier, and I think we ought to get it to clear up some of these things that are hanging around the room here. Senator Lowell WEICKER (R-CT). Mr. Chairman, it's my understanding then that, only so that we might present a logical picture, we will restrict our questions to the matters that Mr. Caulfield raised yesterday in his testimony, but certainly that there are no restrictions and no bars as to future testimony and that he will be recalled for any questions that we would want to ask, is that correct? Senator ERVIN. Yes, that is correct. Senator WEICKER. Thank you very much Mr. Chairman.
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of John Caulfield. May 23, 1973
Mr. Sam DASH. Mr. Caulfield, because your statement was a lengthy one and there was a recess over the evening, let me seek to briefly summarize the essential highlights of your statement that you gave to the committee and please correct me if anything I say is not consistent with your understanding of your statement. In December of 1972 you received an unsigned note which you understood came from Mr. McCord, which complained of a White House effort to blame CIA for the Watergate and threatened that "all the trees in the forest will fall" if this effort continued. In early January 1972 while you were in California, you received a telephone call from John Dean from Washington asking you to deliver the following message to Mr. Dean (Mr. McCord) 1) A year is a long time, 2) your wife and family will be taken care of, 3) you will be rehabilitated with employment when this is over. You did not want to deliver the message, but you thought that it could be delivered through Mr. Tony Ulasewicz and Mr. Dean agreed to do it that way. Mr. John CAULFIELD. Mr. Dash, can I interrupt a second? Mr. DASH. Yes. Mr. CAULFIELD. The correct pronunciation is Ulasewicz. Mr. DASH. Ulasewicz. Mr. CAULFIELD. Yes sir. Mr. DASH. Alright. You did call Mr. Ulasewicz and you asked him to deliver this message and although he himself at first was reluctant, he did agree to deliver the message and he did call Mr. McCord and reported back to you that Mr. McCord appeared satisfied and you reported this to Mr. Dean. The following day you received another call from Mr. Dean informing you that McCord wanted to see you when you returned to Washington. You had Ulasewicz arrange the meeting which was set for Friday January 12th at the second overlook on the George Washington Parkway. In substance you emphasized that you were only a messenger, that the offer you were conveying of executive clemency was from the highest levels of the White House and that it was a sincere offer. McCord s response in substance was that he wanted his complete freedom and even suggested a plan which involved proving that the government had wire-tapped his telephone calls, that he had made two telephone calls to foreign embassy's whose phones he'd believed were wire-tapped. You do not recall saying anything about the president to Mr. McCord, but you did transmit an offer of executive clemency to Mr. McCord which you told him came from the highest levels of the White House. You reported this meeting to Mr. Dean on the telephone. The following day you met with Mr. Dean and he told you to go back to Mr. McCord and impress upon him as fully as you could that the offer of executive clemency was a sincere offer. And when you asked if you should mention any names, such as the president he said "no", but told you that you should say that the offer came "from way up top".
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of John Caulfield. May 23, 1973
Mr. DASH. (continues) Mr. Dean also expressed his concern over this matter as a grave situation that could threaten the President and could become a national scandal. That none of the other defendants in the Watergate case were any problem, and Mr. McCord was not co-operating with his attorney. You again met with Mr. McCord at the second overlook on the George Washington Parkway on January 14 for a short while and conveyed the message of concern over a national scandal which could threaten the President and that McCord was the only one of the defendants not co-operating. Again McCord expressed his interest to you in securing his freedom and wanted you to do something about the wire-taps he had mentioned to you earlier. You telephone Mr. Dean that same day and told him that Mr. McCord was not interested in executive clemency (Mr. Caulfield writing on notepad) and that Mr. McCord believed that the White House could help him get the charges dismissed by supplying proof of the wire-taps for him. You had a final meeting with Mr. McCord on a date you cannot recall but about the third week in January, where you picked him up in your automobile on the second overlook on the George Washington Parkway and drove for about an hour or two. At this time you told him that the White House could not do anything for him about the wire-tap problem and there was a lengthy conversation which for the most part involved other subjects than Watergate. You concluded during that conversation that Mr. McCord was definitely going to make a statement on the Watergate Burglary and it would probably involve allegations against people in the White House and other high administration officials. You gave him what you indicated to the committee as friendly advice to the effect "Jim, I have worked with these people and I know them to be as tough minded as you and I, when you make your statement don't underestimate them. If I were in your shoes I would probably be doing the same thing." But, you also had received from Mr. McCord some reference or request to do something about bail, and you were not able to accomplish anything on the bail issue on further contacts with him. That at no time did you talk with the President about this matter or mention the President to Mr. McCord concerning the offer of executive clemency, but that you carried this message to Mr. McCord because you felt that it was for the good of the President. Is that basically a fair summary of the gist of the contacts with Mr. McCord and Mr. Dean as contained in your statement? Mr. Caulfield. Yes sir.
Watergate Hearings - Testimony of John Caulfield. May 23, 1973
Mr. DASH. Now, although you state that you made no mention of the President to Mr. McCord during your meetings, you do know do you not, that the President is the only person in this country who can grant executive clemency in a federal criminal matter? Mr. CAULFIELD. Yes sir, I do. Mr. DASH. Did you understand when you were speaking with Mr. Dean that Mr. Dean wanted you to transmit the message to Mr. McCord that the offer of executive clemency was made with proper authority? Mr. CAULFIELD. Yes sir. Mr. DASH. Was it your intention during your meeting with Mr. McCord to leave him with a clear understanding that the persons with the authority to make such a representation of executive clemency were in fact extending this offer to him? (Mr. John Caulfield leans over to his lawyer and listens to his council) Mr. CAULFIELD. Just repeat it for me Mr. Dash. Mr. DASH. Yes, was it your intention during your meetings with Mr. McCord to leave him with the clear understanding that persons with the authority to make such a representation as to of executive clemency were in fact extending this offer to him? Mr. CAULFIELD. Yes sir, but if course I have no and did not at that time have any direct knowledge that the president had made such an offer, endorsed such an offer, or anyway was involved in that offer. Mr. DASH. I understand that. Mr. CAULFIELD. Alright. Mr. DASH. Now, looking back Mr. Caulfield what do you see your role to have been in this relationship and what do you think about it? Mr. CAULFIELD. Well, as I've indicated in my statement Mr. Dash, I've viewed myself as a messenger between Mr. Dean and Mr. McCord, exchanging information back and forth on the ongoing negotiations which obviously had been taking place prior to the time that I had received the telephone call in California. Mr. DASH. And was it your understanding at that time, especially with discussions you had with Mr. Dean that there were serious concern at the White House that at least Mr. Dean was conveying to you involving a possible scandal that there was a real effort to get Mr. McCord to accept this offer because of the concern, or trouble or problem he might be able to raise in the Watergate case? Mr. CAULFIELD. That was my clear impression Mr. Dash, yes sir. Mr. Sam DASH. You were being asked to do this because of your friendly relatiolnship with Mr. McCord? Mr. CAULFIELD. That's correct. Mr. DASH. I have no further questions Mr. Chairman.