Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 23, 1973 Testimony of John Caulfield.
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 23, 1973 Testimony of John Caulfield.
Master 10373 Part 1 Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 23, 1973 Testimony of John Caulfield. Caucus Room, Russell Senate Office Building, Washington DC
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 23, 1973 Testimony of John Caulfield.
Mr. Fred THOMPSON. Thank you, Mr. Caulfield as I understand it you've been a personal friend of Mr. McCord is that correct? Mr. John CAULFIELD. That's correct sir. Mr. THOMPSON. Would you still say that that relationship exists as far as you are concerned? Mr. CAULFIELD. Yes sir, I still consider Jim McCord to be my friend. Mr. THOMPSON. Alright, as you were talking to him about the possibility of executive clemency and he was responding to you, what would you say according to what he told you his primary interest was? Mr. CAULFIELD. Very frankly sir, as I reflect back upon the conversation it's very clear in my mind that Jim McCord was concerned about his freedom and was taking the steps that he believed necessary to gain that freedom totally. He was uninterested in any deals of a year is a long time or other statements like that, he in that first conversation at the car made it crystal clear to me that he was different from the others, I could check it if I wanted to, that he wanted his freedom period. Mr. THOMPSON. In other words, he was not necessarily disinterested in any deals, but he was not interested in any deals that would not produce his freedom, is that a correct statement? Mr. CAULFIELD. That's correct. Mr. THOMPSON. As you state here in your statement, he continually said that all he was interested in was his freedom and he was not pleased in some of the others involved were not suffering as he was suffering, is that correct? Mr. CAULFIELD. That's correct. Mr. THOMPSON. You referred also in your statement to his plan, the plan which he had which he thought would produce his freedom. And I believe you refer to his two telephone calls in September and October of 1972 to the two embassy's. Mr. CAULFIELD. Yes sir. Mr. THOMPSON. According to what he told you was it your impression that he believes that these two calls were made in order to ultimately produce his freedom? Put the government in an embarrassing position and therefore produce his freedom? Mr. CAULFIELD. (shaking head, yes) Yes sir.
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 23, 1973 Testimony of John Caulfield.
Mr. Fred THOMPSON. Alright now let me ask you about your relationship with Mr. Ehrlichman for just a few moments. How long did you work for Mr. Ehrlichman when he was council to the President? Mr. John CAULFIELD. From the day that I arrived at the White House on April 8, 1969 formally through July '70 when Mr. Ehrlichman moved over to the domestic council and then on an informal basis from that time till the time I departed the White House. Mr. THOMPSON. After Mr. Ehrlichman left the office of council to the President, Mr. Dean was his successor is that correct? Mr. CAULFIELD. Yes sir. Mr. THOMPSON. You remained there in the office under Mr. Dean, is that correct? Mr. CAULFIELD. That's correct. Mr. THOMPSON. Did you have any contact or any continuing relationship with Mr. Ehrlichman after Mr. Ehrlichman left to go to the office of domestic affairs? Mr. CAULFIELD. Well only on rare peripheral matters relative to the investigations that I indicated in my statement. Mr. THOMPSON. While you were working for Mr. Ehrlichman directly as I understand that you had possibly more than one function but one of those was to carry out certain investigations. Mr. CAULFIELD. Yes, I had many other functions sir, but that was one small part of my duties at the White House sir. Mr. THOMPSON. And you continued to do some of these matters for him, or pursuant to his direction after he left that office? Mr. CAULFIELD. On very rare occasions sir. Mr. THOMPSON. Would you on some occasions act as a inter-mediator between Mr. Ehrlichman and Tony Ulasewicz? Mr. CAULFIELD. Yes sir. Mr. THOMPSON. For jobs that Mr. Ulasewicz would do? Mr. CAULFIELD. Yes sir. Mr. THOMPSON. Would you say that that would be a frequent occasion? Mr. CAULFIELD. That would be infrequent after July of 1970. Mr. THOMPSON. But occasionally? Mr. CAULFIELD. Oh yes sir. Mr. THOMPSON. Mr. Caulfield, in your statement here you state that you were guessing that Mr. Dean probably was referring to Mr. Ehrlichman when he referred high white house sources? Mr. CAULFIELD. Yes that was my guess. Mr. THOMPSON. That was your guess at the time. Mr. CAULFIELD. Yes. Mr. THOMPSON. Now you also go to state that you know, you say "I know that he was in conversation with someone about my contacts with Mr. McCord, since when I was in his office on January 13th he received a telephone call and I heard him say - I'm receiving a report on that right now". Are you referring to Mr. Ehrlichman? Mr. CAULFIELD. No, I (laughs) what I'm saying was the call come in, there were no names mentioned, Mr. Dean said I'm receiving there was apparently the party calling made some comments, Mr. Dean said I'm getting a report on that right now.... Mr. THOMPSON. Oh I see, this conversation that you overheard was with Mr. Dean and someone else. Mr. CAULFIELD. I'm in Mr. Dean's presence Mr. Thompson. Mr. THOMPSON. I see and you assumed that perhaps that conversation was with Mr. Ehrlichman? Or possibly with Mr. Ehrlichman? Mr. CAULFIELD. Possibly with Mr. Ehrlichman but I have no way of knowing sir. Mr. Fred THOMPSON. You feel like there definitely in your mind that he was talking with someone else about it, is that correct? Mr. CAULFIELD. Well, I want to be careful there sir because I just don't know where the call come from, if it was coming form outside it could have been someone else, if it was coming form somewhere within the White House then it was someone in the White House, so ... (laughs) By that I mean sir there was an inter office telephone system. Now, I do not know and have no way of knowing if that was an inter office call or whether or not it was a call coming from outside. Mr. THOMPSON. I see. Mr. CAULFIELD. So, that's why I mention it that way. Mr. THOMPSON. What would you say was the relationship between Mr. Dean and Mr. Ehrlichman during this period of time? Did Mr. Dean in many matters in effect report to Mr. Ehrlichman or answer to Mr. Ehrlichman? Mr. CAULFIELD. Yes sir, on many matters having to do with Mr. Deans work and Mr. Ehrlichman's work as well. Mr. THOMPSON. Did you ever talk to Mr. Ehrlichman about this matter, this business of possible executive clemency for Mr. McCord? Mr. CAULFIELD. No sir. Mr. THOMPSON. Never did? Mr. CAULFIELD. No sir. Mr. THOMPSON. Did you ever talk to anyone there at the White House besides Mr. Dean? Mr. CAULFIELD. Absolutely no one but Mr. John Dean. Mr. THOMPSON. I have no further questions Mr. Chairman.