Testimony of Bernard L. Barker - Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 24, 1973
Testimony of Bernard L. Barker - Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 24, 1973
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 24, 1973 - Testimony of Bernard L. Barker United States Senate Caucus Room, Washington DC
Testimony of Bernard L. Barker - Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 24, 1973
Senator ERVIN. Any questions, Mr. Thompson? Mr. THOMPSON. Yes sir. Mr. Barker, was it your opinion at the time of the break-in of the Democratic National Committee headquarters at the Watergate that your operation was a CIA operation? Mr. BARKER. I do not know the answer to that question. Mr. THOMPSON. Was it your opinion at that time that it was a CIA operation? Mr. BARKER. The only opinion that I can intelligently make is that it was a result of the operation in which I was involved. In the first operation in which I was involved, I was told, I'm speaking of the Ellsberg operation, that it was a matter of national security, of high sensitivity, that it involved a traitor to this country who had given information to a foreign embassy, he or his associates, and I proceeded on that assumption at that time. Since then, I have been told nothing different of any other organization. It was explained at that particular time and place that national security was above FBI and CIA.
Testimony of Bernard L. Barker - Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 24, 1973
Mr. THOMPSON. Haven't you stated that the matter in which the operation was carried out, the person to whom you were responsible, your former superior, Mr. Hunt, the manner in which you were taken care of financially, all pointed toward the fact that it was a CIA operation? Mr. BARKER. The methods utilized in the operation were the same methods utilized when I worked for Mr. Hunt in the Bay of Pigs invasion. This training I received with the rest of the Cubans from a Government agency. This does not mean that this was a CIA operation. Mr. THOMPSON. But was it not your opinion at that time that it was and was it not your opinion even after that time, when you were receiving this money, that it was a natural thing, it was an ordinary thing? Mr. BARKER. The moneys that were received for the attorneys, for the expenses and for the family support was received in the same spirit and under the same conditions that would have been similar in a CIA operation. Comparatively, it is based on the following philosophy: If you are caught by the enemy, every effort will be made to retrieve you, all expenses will be taken care of, and your family will be provided for. This was true of the Bay of Pigs invasion; to my knowledge, some of those families of that time, are still being taken care of that I know of. And we expected this - we were not surprised let us say, that this situation would come to pass. However, there was a doubt in my mind at that time to the effect of what did it mean, what did national security mean as above FBI or CIA? And that question has still not been solved in my mind. If it was a CIA operation, only the CIA would admit this, not I. I did not need to be told what it was. I knew the persons involved. Mr. Hunt had been my superior in the Bay of Pigs invasion and I would assume that Mr. Hunt, who was counselor at the White House, had the authority to order me at that time or to request for me to become involved in a matter of national security for which my training and my disposition was available at that time.
Testimony of Bernard L. Barker - Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 24, 1973
Mr. THOMPSON. Did you ever have any discussion with anybody about the possibility that if you went to trial and entered a plea of not guilty, that the Ellsberg break-in would be exposed? Mr. BARKER. This has never been discussed. The Ellsberg break-in would never have been exposed by me. Mr. THOMPSON. Not by you, but in the course of the trial, either by the prosecution in their case in chief, or the cross-examination of any of the other defendants, or in any manner? Was that a consideration that you had in entering the plea of guilty? Mr. BARKER. A while ago, I explained that the methods of operation we used were the same as those we had learned. As a matter of discipline, of compartmentalization, and of habit. We do not discuss these operations with anyone or even among each other. This was a rule between our team and it is the type of training we have received. We have never discussed this, even among ourselves. Mr. THOMPSON. Even with Mr. Hunt? Mr. BARKER. Even with Mr. Hunt. Mr. THOMPSON. So you never discussed it with - excluding your attorney. I am not speaking now of your attorney, of course. Attorney client privilege that might be present. But with anyone else, you have never discussed that with anyone else? Mr. BARKER. Not to my knowledge, no.
Testimony of Bernard L. Barker - Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 24, 1973
Mr. THOMPSON. Let me ask you this: Do you recall a trip you took in a taxi to Mr. Bittman's office after a day of trial with Mr. McCord, Mr. Alch and Mr. Shankman? Mr. BARKER. Yes, I recall. Mr. THOMPSON. What is your recollection of that? Mr. BARKER. I can only say to my best recollection, that I was in Washington at that time. To the best of my recollection, I had come up for a meeting of attorneys on some new motions that were going to be put in, and I had been asked by Mr. Rothblatt to meet him at Mr. Bittman's office. I saw Mr. Alch and Mr. McCord get in a cab and I asked them if they would drop me off at Mr. Bittman's office. I said Mr. Bittman's office because this is how I thought of the office. Mr. Rothblatt, my attorney, had an office in a lower level of the same building where Mr. Bittman's office was and to the best of my recollection, I went there to meet Mr. Rothblatt. And to the best of my recollection, nothing was discussed, nothing was told to me about the meetings that the attorneys had that I can remember at this time. Mr. THOMPSON. Did you ever go to Mr. Bittman's office that particular day? Mr. BARKER. Did I ever what? Mr. THOMPSON. Did you go to Mr. Bittman's office that day? Mr. BARKER. I do not remember going to Mr. Bittman's office.
Testimony of Bernard L. Barker - Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 24, 1973
Mr. THOMPSON. Did you part company with Mr. McCord, and and Mr. Alch, and Mr. Shankman when you entered the building, or when? Mr. BARKER. No, no. As soon as I arrived-there had been no conversation in the cab and as soon as I arrived, I thanked them for giving me the lift and I just went up to the office by myself. Mr. THOMPSON. Where did they go? Mr. BARKER. The last I saw them, they were in the cab. I do not know. When I reached the elevator, they were not there. Mr. HAMILTON. Mr. Barker, would you identify your lawyer, please? Mr. BARKER. My recollection of that meeting was that it was a pretrial- Mr. THOMPSON. Mr. Barker, pardon me. Would you identify your attorney? Mr. SCHULTZ. Daniel Schultz. Mr. BARKER. That this motion was to be a pretrial motion that I am referring to. At that time, as far as the time element is concerned, that I recollect being in the cab. I do recollect being in the cab. I am a bit confused as to the time. It was to the best of my recollection that the time that I got in the cab with them was to meet Mr. - I remember it was to meet Mr. - my attorney. It was when I came up for some pretrial motions. Mr. THOMPSON. To the best of your recollection, it was before the trial and not during the trial? Mr. BARKER. That is the best of my recollection.
Testimony of Bernard L. Barker - Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 24, 1973
Mr. THOMPSON. Let me ask you two or three more specific questions, Mr. Barker and I will be finished. Let me ask you this, I do not know whether or not you have been listening to Mr. McCord's testimony. He testified Tuesday morning to this effect in response to the following questions from Senator Talmadge: "How did Mr. Barker or the other Cuban-Americans ever come to you during the trial-now did Mr. Barker or other Cuban-Americans come to you during the trial and tell you they had been offered Executive clemency by Mr. Hunt?" Mr. McCord says, "Yes, sir." Is that true? Mr. BARKER. I do not know whether he was saying the truth or not, but I was never offered clemency by anyone. Mr. THOMPSON. The question is whether or not you - Mr. BARKER. That is not my recollection. Mr. THOMPSON. The question is whether or not you came during the trial to Mr. McCord and told him that you had been offered Executive clemency. Mr. BARKER. I deny that. Mr. THOMPSON. That is not true? Mr. BARKER. Our recollections differ, I never discussed this matter with Mr. McCord, to my recollection. I would have no reason to discuss this matter with Mr. McCord. Mr. THOMPSON. You would remember that, would you not? Mr. BARKER. I certainly would remember if I had discussed, but I could not remember something I was not offered. I was never offered any kind of clemency whatsoever.
Testimony of Bernard L. Barker - Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 24, 1973
Mr. THOMPSON. It also states that you told him about the pressure stemming from Mr. Hunt and other unnamed individuals to plead guilty and go to prison, and offered, ultimately, executive clemency and financial support for the families while in prison, and that promises were stated concerning help in obtaining a job and rehabilitation. He says "Mr. Barker spoke to me several times during that week regarding that particular pressure upon him which he described as intense." Is that a true statement? Mr. BARKER. The only pressure that I had at that time was a disagreement with my attorney, Mr. Rothblatt, as to the plea of guilty. Mr. Rothblatt did not want me to plead guilty at the time. Mr. THOMPSON. First of all, will you answer my question, is this a true statement? Mr. BARKER. Not to my recollection. Mr. McCord and I have different recollections. Mr. THOMPSON. All right. Any further explanation you want to give will be fine. Mr. BARKER. Mr. Rothblatt refused to represent me if we pleaded guilty. At that time I thought that the decision was up to me. I had to weigh whether pleading guilty and throwing myself at the mercy of the court, and at a time when I had been caught at the Democratic headquarters, when Mr. Hunt said to me that the evidence against us was overwhelming. Mr. THOMPSON. Mr. Hunt told you that? Mr. BARKER. Mr. Hunt told me that he had been advised by his attorney that the evidence against us was overwhelming. Mr. Hunt had not been caught inside of the Watergate, I had. I considered him a very intelligent-and still do-capable man, and if Mr. Hunt at the time was going to plead guilty and I was caught inside, I think it would be ridiculous and it has been proven for me to plead anything but guilty, but there was a decision that I had to make, with all due respect to Mr. Rothblatt, and I hope this does not reflect any negation that he conducted himself excellently at the trial, that he was, in my opinion, an excellent attorney, this was my decision, and no one else influenced me in this decision, and I think that it was proven-time has proven that my decision to plead guilty was the correct one. Mr. THOMPSON. I have no further questions, thank you.