Impeachment Hearings: House Judiciary Committee, May 9, 1974
Impeachment Hearings: House Judiciary Committee, May 9, 1974
[00.13.05] The CHAIRMAN. I recognize the gentleman from Massachusetts, Mr. Donohue. Mr. DONOHUE. Chairman. as understand it. the impeachment inquiry staff has received a wide variety of material which has, up until now, been subject to the requirements of confidentiality. Included in this class of confidential material are. documents 'which have been received from grand juries as well as materials developed by other congressional committees in executive sessions. Under the circumstances Mr. Chairman. it is my opinion we should not make, all this material public today. Therefore, I' move that during initial phase of the presentation the committee go into executive session pursuant to rule 11, clause 27 of our House rules. That rule provides that If evidence or testimony at an investigative hearing may tend to defame, degrade, or incriminate any person the committee shall receive such evidence, or testimony in executive session. Mr. McCLORY. I second the motion. The CHAIRMAN. The motion has been made and seconded. Mr. CONYERS. May I be recognized, Mr. Chairman? The CHAIRMAN. The motion, might advise the gentleman from Michigan, is not a debatable motion. Mr. CONYERS. This motion--well, point, of order-, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. The question is 'on the Motion Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, point of order. The CHAIRMAN. Since, the question is not one that is debatable, the Chair will put the question to the committee. All those in favor --- Mr. CONYERS. Mr. Chairman, point of order. Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will state his point of order. Mr. CONYERS. IS the Chair suggesting that a motion of this importance and magnitude, with no more than being stated and seconded, cannot be considered by the members of this committee gathered here for the purposes of an impeachment hearing? CHAIRMAN. Is the gentleman stating a point of order? Mr. CONYERS. Yes. The CHAIRMAN. Or is he inquiring of the Chair? The Chair has already ruled that the motion is not a debatable one in accordance. with the rules of the House, rule 11, 27m, and therefore, unless the gentleMan is ready to state. that he has an argument to support, his point of order, the, Chair is ready to present the, question on the motion. Mr. CONYERS. I ask for a rollcall vote Mr. Chairman., Ms. HOLTZMAN. Parliamentary inquiry. the CHAIRMAN. The lady will state it. Ms. HOLTZMAN. Thank I-oil. Did I understand the gentleman's motion was to close the hearings & receive this portion in the executive Session for the first phase, or only this hearing session? The CHAIRMAN. For the initial phase of the hearing. Ms. HOLTZMAN. I thank the Chairman.
Impeachment Hearings: House Judiciary Committee, May 9, 1974
Mr. SEIBERLING. Mr. Chairman, a point of order. As I understand flip House rules, we must vote at each session of the committee whether the committee shall be open Or closed. Is that correct? Therefore. we are really only voting On today's session? The CHAIRMAN. This. as the Chair will again state. the session that Would be closed, of course would relate to today, it any subsequent and, time the Chair could entertain another, motion. But, the motion that put to the Chairman this time is a motion to close this hearing in order that we hear this initial presentation in accordance with rule 11, 27M, which suggests that Where there. Is the possibility that any information may tend to degrade or defame that, the session be an executive session. Therefore- Mr. SEIBERILING. Well, Mr. Chairman, if I may pursue this inquiry just a little bit, it Is my intention to support the motion. However, it is my understanding of the rules that at the next session of this committee, if it is to be a closed session. a similar motion will have to be made and approved and that at, each subsequent which isdesired to be el closed? of The CHAIRMAN. The question that the gentleman is propounding suggests that we will be continuing & we are going to be continuing this hearing. We will be recessing from time to time Mr. SEIBERLING. But each day, I mean at each day's session, at the start of each day, a similar motion must be, approved, as I understand the rules. Mr. McCLORY. Mr. Chairman. parliamentary inquiry. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman will state it. Mr. McCLORY. Is it not, the rule of the House, that we are bound by and we do not need any motion, we do not need any action by this committee? All we have to do is comply with the rules of the House which is -what the chairman is suggesting in the action 'we are taking at the present time. Mr. RANGEL. Parliamentary inquiry. Parliamentary inquiry. The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman is absolutely correct. Mr. RANGEL. Mr. Chairman? The CHAIRMAN. I will recognize the gentleman from New York for a parliamentary inquiry. Mr. RANGEL. Mr. Chairman, under this motion, on the, requirements of confidentiality, does the staff of the President of the United States, who are now present, are they governed by these rules? The CHAIRMAN. The Chair has Mready stated that, the counsel for the President and his assistant are governed by the rules of confidentiality and the rules of procedure. Mr. WALDIE. Mr. Chairman, parliamentary inquiry. Mr. Chairman, do I understand since there is no access on the part of the committee to the materials, do I understand that the Chair is representing to the committee that these materials do., in fact, tend to degrade or defame? The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is stating that in accordance with the rules, all that has to be suggested in the motion is that they may tend to defame or degrade, and not that there is a finding of fact. Mr. WALDIE. Well, may I ask if the Chair is suggesting that the materials may tend to degrade and defame? The CHAIRMAN. The Chair is merely acting on the motion of the gentleman from Massachusetts. Mr. WALDIE. Then may I make the parliamentary inquiry to the gentleman from Massachusetts Mr. DENNIS. Point of order. The CHAIRMAN. Parliamentary inquiry will not be directed to anyone else but the Chair and the gentleman recognizes that. However, I would state to the gentleman that the gentleman has Mready been told that this is the rule and that there is no need that there be a finding Of fact. Therefore, the gentleman's inquiry out of order and the Chair now puts the question.
Impeachment Hearings: House Judiciary Committee, May 9, 1974
Mr. WALDIE. Rollcall, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. The roll call vote is demanded. However, in accordance with the rules of the House, one-fifth of the members would have to support a request for a Rollcall. All those in favor of asking for a Rollcall, by record vote please, raise their hands. Show of hands. The CHAIRMAN. 1/5 of the members, a sufficient number has Voted in the affirmative & Rollcall is demanded & the clerk will Call the roll. All those in from favor of closing up r, the hearings please say aye and all those opposed, no. Mr. DONOHUE. Aye. Mr. BROOKS. Aye. Mr KASTENMEIER. Aye. Mr. EDWARDS. Ave. Mr. HUNGATE. Aye. Mr. CONYERS. 'No. Mr. EILBERG. No. Mr. WALDIE. NO. Mr. MANN. Ave. Mr. Sarbanes, Aye. Mr. SEIBERLING. Ave. Mr. DANIELSON. Ave. Mr. DRINAN. NO. Mr. RANGEL. NO. [SMOKING cigarette as vote progresses, grim expression] Ms. JORDAN. Aye. Mr. THORNTON. Ave. Ms. HOLTZMAN. No. No. Mr. OWENS. Aye. Mr. MEZVINSKY. Ave. Mr. HUTCHINSON. Ave. Mr. McCLORY. Aye. Mr. SMITH. Aye. Mr. SANDMAN. Aye. Mr. RAILSBACK. Aye. Mr. WIGGINS. Aye. Mr. DENNIS. Aye. Mr. FISH. Aye. MAYNE. Aye. Mr. HOGAN. Aye. Mr. BUTLER. Aye. Mr. COHEN. Aye. Mr. LOTT. Aye. Mr. FROEHLICH. Aye. Mr. MOORHEAD. Aye. Mr. MARAZITI. Aye. Mr. LATTA. Aye. The CHAIRMAN. Aye. The clerk will report the, vote. The CLERK. 31 members have voted aye, 6 have voted no. And the motion is agreed to. And the Chair will now announce that the committee will go into recess until the television cameras and other equipment which is not allowed, and persons not permitted during the course of the confidential hearings will be removed from the room. [00.23.16--start of fade to LEHRER in studio]