Impeachment Hearings: House Judiciary Committee, July 30, 1974 (1/2)
Impeachment Hearings: House Judiciary Committee, July 30, 1974 (1/2)
[00.24.12] Mr. McCLORY. I thank the gentleman for yielding, and I certainly feel that the original draft of the, article was good. it was in good legalistic and constitutional language On the other bond, I do not want, to oppose this rather elaborate, and argumentative, language that is contained in this amendment. I think the gentleman from Virginia was seeking recognition. Mr. OWENS. Well, I would support the amendment of the gentleman from Illinois as amended by the amendment of the gentleman from Arkansas, but it seemed like to me that the principle is more absolute and clear as set down in the original amendment offered by the gentleman. Mr. McCLORY. I think the gentleman from Virginia would like to be recognized. Mr. CONYERS. Would the gentleman yield to me? Mr. OWENS. The gentleman from Virginia. Mr. BUTLER. I would like to. if I may. direct a question to the gentleman from Arkansas, if you will also yield to me. Mr. OWENS. I will yield for that purpose. .Mr. BUTLER. I am concerned. and the gentleman knows my reservation about this whole article, I am concerned about this language in your amendment which says in order to resolve by direct evidence fundamental questions relating to Presidential direction, knowledge or approval of actions, and here is the language that I wonder about, "demonstrated by other evidence to be substantial grounds for impeachment of the President." Now, does that mean that we have a preliminary finding of substantial grounds for impeachment of the President in all of -it before we issued a subpena in all of these areas with reference, for example, let its take the, dairy situation? Mr. THORNTON. . It seems, if the gentleman will yield, it seems to me. that the requirement is that a threshold level of evidence of substantial offenses which might rise to the level of impeachable offenses must be demonstrated before an impeachment could occur upon a refusal to obey a subpena, and that is the thought that I have tried to express. Mr. BUTLER. And clarifying this a little further than you have said here that we have, in fact, made that preliminary determination as to these other matters by this resolution? Mr. THORNTON. That there is a body of evidence substantial enough to raise serious questions with regard to milk and other matters supporting the issuance of subpenas of other material as necessary to resolve some of those matters. Mr. BUTLER. SO, it is your thought by this action to remove us from the areas of previous impeachment proceeding the basis for impeachment? Mr. THORNTON. That is correct, and further to tie it to the kind of evidence which does appear, for example, in article 1. The CHAIRMAN. The time has expired, on the amendment. All time has expired on the amendment, and the question now occurs on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Arkansas, Mr. Thornton. Mr. FLOWERS. Rollcall vote, Mr. Chairman. Rollcall vote. The CHAIRMAN. All those in favor of the amendment when the roll is called please signify by saying aye, and all those opposed signify by saying no. The clerk will cal I the roll, The CLERK. Mr. Donohue. Mr. DONOHUE. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Brooks. Mr. BROOKS. Aye. The, CLERK. Mr. Kastenmeier. Mr. KASTENMEIER. Aye. The, CLERK. Mr. Edwards. Mr. EDWARDS. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Hungate. Mr. HUNGATE. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Conyers. Mr. CONYERS. No. The CLERK. Mr. Eilberg. Mr. EILBERG. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Waldie. Mr. WALDIE. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Flowers. Mr. FLOWERS. No. The CLERK. Mr. Mann. Mr. MANN. Aye. The CLERK . Mr. Sarbanes. Mr. SARBANES. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Seiberling. Mr. SEIBERLING. Aye. The, CLERK. Mr. Danielson. Mr. DANIELSON. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Drinan. Mr. DRINAN. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Rangel. Mr. RANGEL. Aye. The CLERK. Ms. Jordan. MS. JORDAN. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Thornton. Mr. THORNTON. Aye. The CLERK. MS. Holtzman. MS. HOLTZMAN. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Owens. Mr. OWENS. NO. The CLERK. Mr. Mezvinsky. Mr. MEZVINSKY. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Hutchinson. Mr. HUTCHINSON. Aye. The CLERK- Mr. McClory, Mr. McCLORY. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Smith. Mr. SMITH. No. The CLERK. Mr. Sandman. Mr. SANDMAN. NO. The CLERK. Mr. Railsback. Mr. RAILSBACK. No. The CLERK. Mr. WIGGINS. Mr. WIGGINS. No. The CLERK. Mr. Dennis. Mr. DENNIS. No. The CLERK. Mr. Fish. Mr. FISH. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Mayne. Mr. MAYNE. No. The CLERK. Mr. Hogan. Mr. HOGAN. NO. The CLERK. Mr. Butler. Mr. BUTLER. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Cohen. Mr. COHEN. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Lott. Mr. LOTT. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Froehlich. Mr. FROEHLICH. NO. The CLERK. Mr. Moorhead. Mr. MOORHEAD. No. The CLERK. Mr. Maraziti. Mr. MARAZITI. No. The CLERK. Mr. Latta. Mr. LATTA. No. The CLERK. Mr. Rodino. The CHAIRMAN. Aye. The CLERK. Mr. Chairman? The CHAIRMAN. The clerk will report. The CLERK. Twenty-four members have voted aye, 14 members have voted no. The CHAIRMAN. And the amendment is agreed to. [00.30.24--Paul DUKE in studio]