Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 14, 1973
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 14, 1973
[00.41.31] Senator BAKER. Some, of history's great decisions have been nondecisions on occasion. Let me approach it from this standpoint. You say Mr. Mitchell signed off on it. Do you mean physically initialed it or signed it? Mr. MAGRUDER. No, sir I -mean he said -we Will give Mr. Liddy the $250,000. Senator BAKER. And he identified the targets. Did that include the Democratic National Committee headquarters at the Watergate? Mr. MAGRUDER. MAGRUDER. Yes, sir. Senator BAKER. Did he do that with a pencil? Mr. MAGRUDER. He, may have. He wrote some things on some documents. I cannot specifically recall what he, -wrote on the documents because, I destroyed the documents. Senator BAKER. Was there any question in Your mind that the, plan Was agreed to by Mr. Mitchell? Mr. MAGRUDER. No, sir, there, was no doubt. -But it was a reluctant decision. I think that is important to not, It was not one that anyoue was overwhelmed with at all, But it was, made and he did make It- [00.42.23] Senator BAKER. Tell me, more, about why it, was a reluctant decision. can think of a thousand reasons why it was a reluctant decision. But why was it? Mr. MAGRUDER. You probably have all the good reasons, as I do., We knew it was illegal, probably inappropriate. We didn't think that probably much would come of if; but, on the other hand. something may come of it and I think I it was one of those decisions that unfortunately we had 30 decisions, as I recall it, at least 30 decisions we made that day about even greater sums Of money than that, $230,000. Senator BAKER. Did you have any other decision to make that, day that involved any illegal action ? Mr. MAGRUDER. No, sir. Senator BAKER. Or any clandestine activity? Mr. MAGRUDER. No. sir. Senator BAKER. Did that stand out in your mind as to why you Made that decision reluctantly? Mr. MAGRUDER. Yes, sir. I think SO. Senator BAKER. Did you ever express any reservations about it? Mr. MAGRUDER. Yes. sir. Senator BAKER, What did you say? Mr. MAGRUDER. Well. that it. was inappropriate as well as illegal and that it may not work. Senator BAKER. To whom did you say that? Mr. MAGRUDER. To Mr. Mitchell, Mr. LaRue, -Mr. Strachan, Senator BAKER. What was -Mr. Mitchell's reply? Mr. MAGRUDER. I think he had similar reservations, sir. Senator BAKER. What did he say? Mr. MAGRUDER. Well, by this time, we had some indications of lack of compatibility with Mr. Liddy's behavior and we knew that this was possibly an inappropriate program. Senator BAKER. What -was 'Mr. LaRue's reaction? Mr. MAGRUDER. Similar; he was not overwhelmed With the plan Senator BAKER. What was your reaction? Mr. MAGRUDER. I was not overwhelmed with the program, but, you must. I think, understand that I had personal feelings, relating to Liddy and I was concerned about letting those personal feelings overcome a, possible decision that might be, made. Senator BAKER. What was Mr. Strachan's reaction? Mr. MAGRUDER. I think he, felt uncomfortable with Mr. Liddy. But again, I think -we have, to, in all. honesty, say that we thought there may be Some information that could be very helpful to us and because of a certain atmosphere that had developed in my working at the White House, I -was not as concerned about its illegality as I should have been at that time,. [00.44.37] Senator BAKER. If you were concerned because the action was known to you to be illegal, because you thought It improper or unethical, you thought the prospects for success very meager and you doubted the reliability of Liddy, what on earth would it have taken to decide against that plan? Mr. MAGRUDER. not very much, sir. I am sure that if I had fought it. I think any of us could have had that plan cancelled. It was almost canceled. I had fired him from that position, but reneged on that. 'Senator BAKER. You really leave me dangling, 'Mr. Magruder and I don't attribute any ill motive to you for that. It is just that I still can't quite come to grips with why you all had an expressed reservation about this and you still went ahead with it. Was the incentive so great or the prospects for success so tantalizing that you felt it irresistible? [00.45.35] Mr. MAGRUDER. I knew you would get to this line of questioning, so why don't I give you what I think is the appropriate response here. I had worked for some 2 years, 3 years, really, in the White House and at that time, I was mainly engaged in the activities trying to generate some support for the President both with Mr. Haldeman and as Mr. Klein's deputy. During that time, we had worked primarily relating to the war situation and worked with antiwar groups. Now, I had gone to college, as an example, under--and had a course in ethics as an example under William Sloane Coffin, whom I respect greatly. I have great regard for him. He was quoted the other day as saying, well, I guess Mr. Magruder failed my, course in ethics. And I think he, is correct. During this whole time, we were in the White House and during this time we were directly 37 employed with trying to succeed with the President's policies and I knew how he was trying very diligently to settle the war issue and we were all at that time against the war as an example--I think this is the primary issue-we saw continuing violations of the law done by men like William Sloane 'Coffin. He tells me my ethics are bad. Yet he was indicted for criminal charges. He recommended on the Washington Monument grounds that students burn their draft cards and that, we have mass demonstrations, shut down the city of Washington. [00.46.59]