Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 27, 1973

.Caucus Room, Russell Senate Office Building
Year Shot:
1973  (Actual Year)
Tape Master:
Original Film:
[00.45.27-GURNEY continues to try to discredit DEAN'S testimony by challenging him on his use of campaign cash that was entrusted to him] Senator GURNEY. Did you use all Of it for personal expenses? Mr. DEAN. Well. I did pay for some travel. I did pay for some expenses in Florida, out of it'. I have not sat down and tried to reconstruct, every expenditure. It might be possible for me. to do so. I don't know in dealing with cash but I bought everything form from groceries and just used it personally. Senator GURNEY. I wonder if you would try to do that for the committee, reconstruct how you spent it. Mr. DEAN. Certainly. Senator GURNEY. Why didn't, you replace it shortly after this time? Mr. DEAN. Well, at one, point I did put in, back in what I had into the account and in November when I was trying again to get a honeymoon I took it back out again. Senator GURNEY. How much? Mr. DEAN. Senator, I have no idea. I commingled it with other money of mine and put back in and taken back out. Senator GURNEY. Do you recall how much you put, back in? Mr. DEAN. NO, sir; I do not. Senator GURNEY. You don't recall how much you took back out? Mr. DEAN. I do not at this point. I could--as I say I will try to reconstruct that for the committee. Senator GURNEY. Did you do it at -any other time? Mr. DEAN. No. Senator GURNEY. Put in and take out? Mr. DEAN. Not to my recollection, no. Senator GURNEY. Only the one time following the original? [00.46.47] Do you know this is a crime, Mr. Dean? Mr. DEAN. I am not aware what crime it is, no. Senator GURNEY. Isn't it, embezzlement? Mr. DEAN. Well, I had very clearly made, there was no intention on my part never to account for the full amount. I had understood later that by the time I had taken it out it was moneys that had come over from the 1968 primaries, and I knew at some point in time there were many people aware of the fact that I had custody of the money, that I was to -account, for $15,200 and I was perfectly willing, able and capable of accounting for that full amount. Senator GURNEY. Did anybody know you had ever taken the money out? Mr. DEAN. Not to my knowledge, no. Senator GURNEY. Did you tell anybody? Mr. DEAN. No;' I did not. Senator GURNEY. When did you tell somebody about, handling this money? Mr. DEAN. When I went to the Government, when I first began talking to the prosecutors I explained it to them. I told my lawyer about it also when I retained counsel. Senator GURNEY. When was that and who? Mr. DEAN. I retained -Mr. Shaffer on March 30 and I don't recall exactly when we got, around to that. We spent most of the time getting Out my explanation of the, facts and then we started getting down into details and at, that point in time I told him I had this getting money and I thought we ought to handle that also. Senator GURNEY. Was the check still in there at that time? Mr. DEAN. Yes; it was. Senator GURNEY. In other words, you never told anybody about this or really did anything about it until April when, of course, the whole Watergate thing was blowing? [00.48.29-DEAN counters GURNEY'S charges of embezzlement, although his answer is a bit self-serving] Mr. DEAN-. Well, I Will tell you, I thought, at one time I ought to stick cash back in there and I said that is the dishonest thing to do hi this regard, I have to come forward and explain that, I did make personal use of this money. Senator GURNEY. Where is the money now? Mr. SHAFFER. Excuse me. I would like to say as counsel for Mr. Dean, that, based upon the facts that have been discussed with Mr. Dean, if they are true. Mr. Gurney says that is embezzlement. I disagree with him, and I think there are enough lawyers in the room to know what embezzlement is, and I do not plan to take the time, now unless the Chair expressly asks me to make that definition, However. I think it is unfair to the record to have the situation in a demurrer posture and to conclude that on the facts that are recited by -Mr. Dean, if true, that that is embezzlement. Senator GURNEY. Well, we. might rephrase the, question this way. [Laughter.] Did it ever occur to you, 'Mr. Dean, that this might have, that you might have been committing some sort Of an offense or crime? Mr. DEAN. No, it did not because I felt I was always prepared to account for the money. [00.49.45]