Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 29, 1973 (2/2)
Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, June 29, 1973 (2/2)
[01.03.24-DASH questions DEAN, driving at the point that KALMBACH must have known that if the provision of money to the defendants was to be covert, it must have been improper, or else it would have been public and visible] Mr. DEAN.----I told him virtually everything I knew at that time and I think there was no doubt in his mind about the sensitivity of the situation. Mr. DASH. As a matter of fact, Mr. Dean, is there anything wrong for instance, if somebody working for you--and after all, Liddy and McCord did work for the Committee To Re-Elect the President--is there anything wrong if anybody works for you and gets in trouble, about your picking up their expenses--defense funds and things like that, Defense funds have been raised. [01.03.58] If that was the attitude of the White House. and. if that was the attitude of the Committee To Re-Elect the President for Mr. Liddy, Mr. McCord, whoever else they involved, would they not at least have tried to dig up a collection from' all those working for the White House and Isn't the committee, to raise a defense fund? Isn't that the way you raise defense funds for defendants? [01.04.20] Mr. DEAN. I am not familiar with raising defense funds, but you generally don't use covert means to raise humanitarian funds. Mr. DASH. Do you use moneys that have been given to a committee to reelect a President of the United States? Mr. DEAN. In covert fashion? Mr. DASH. In raising a defense fund for those who may have been caught in a covert act, do you use campaign funds-- Mr. DEAN. No, you don't. Mr. DASH. Is that a proper use of funds given in a campaign for reelection of a President? Mr. DEAN. No, it is not. Mr. DASH. YOU Spoke of your knowledge of clandestine payments. Can you tell us of your knowledge of the clandestine nature of the way, in which these payments -were made? [01.05.00] Mr. DEAN. Mr. Kalmbach asked me if I would have Mr. Ulasewicz call him when he returned to -California. He said he didn't have. his phone number at that time. and would like to have him reach him as soon as he got back. In a few subsequent conversations I had with Mr. Kalmbach, he had developed what he called code names for various individuals. I think I reefered to these earlier., He called Mr. Hunt the Writer. He called Mr. Haldeman the Brush. Mr. DASH. Do you know what he called Mrs. Hunt? Mr. DEAN. 'The, -writer's wife, I think, maybe. something I don't know. Mr. DASH. Like who is buried in Grant's Tomb, Mr. DEAN. I don't really know. Mr. DASH. Do you know, by the way, whether Mr. Ulasewicz, had a code name? Did you know that he was called Mr. Rivers in the conversation with Mr. Kalmbach and Mr. Ulasewicz? Mr. DEAN. I think I did hear that subsequently from Mr. Kalmbach, that he had referred to him as Mr. Rivers. [01.06.06] Mr. DASH. Now, again, if one were to, on the basis of decency, humanitarianism, whatever way you want to call it, raise a defense fund, 'Would you go about clandestinely using code, names of that kind to secretly make these payoffs? Mr. DEAN. No, sir. Mr. DASH. I think we will have Mr. Kalmbach here to testify as to that in much more detail. Now, did Mr. Kalmbach tell you about any of the instructions that he had as the man who was to make these payoffs? [01.06.44] Mr. DEAN. He, told me when I met him in Lafayette Park that he was going to meet Mr. Ulasewicz at that point in time and that, he was going to have the money laundered. That is the only thing I know about that. He never did tell me exactly how money was laundered. I asked him and he said, I don't know. I don't know if he goes to the race track and exchanges it there or if he's got friends in New York that exchange it, I was never exactly clear on how money was laundered. Mr. DASH. Did Mr. Kalmbach ever tell You that he had had any discussion with Mr. Ehrlichman concerning this role? [01.07.21] Mr. DEAN. . The only time I had heard of any discussion was when--well, Mr. Kalmbach had numerous discussions with Mr. Ehrlichman that I was aware of. Mr. Kalmbach. when he would come into town, would have a list that he would keep in his pocket that he would check off each item with each individual he wanted to talk with. He is a very thorough man. He never told me what he was going over with Mr. Ehrlichman on his list. [01.07.50] The only time. I had heard about his discussing this at all with Mr. Ehrlichman was after April--or let's see, March 29 or 30, when they were in California for President Thieu's visit. He said to me he had met with Mr. Ehrlichman that week to discuss the fact that he was concerned that when he, appeared before this committee he didn't want to ever have the name of the contributor come out, the person who had raised this money, and he had had some discussion with him. What other discussions--I know, he had met with Mr. Ehrlichman On countless occasions. [01.08.29] Mr. DASH. Did Mr. Kalmbach over tell you to your knowledge that Mr. Ehrlichman had indicated that the President had approved these payments? Mr. DEAN. Did Mr. Kalmbach tell me? Mr. DASH. Yes. Mr. DEAN. 'No, he, did not. Mr. DASH, Did you learn in any other way? Mr. DEAN-. No, not that I recall. Mr. DASH. In your exhibit No. 34-47. Mr. Dean, you list Mr. Stans. I think you pretty -well identified a number of the 'others and I think it may be interesting to the committee, Mr. Stans having testified before the committee, why you listed his name. This was a list, to recall it for you, that you put certain markings by those who were lawyers. This was a list of those you thought had problems as far as criminal charges. Why was Mr. Stans put on your list? [01.09.24]