Capitol Journal
Capitol Journal - House Panel Symposium on Bipartisanship
U.S. Representatives Tom Foley (D-WA), Howard Berman (D-CA), and Robert Michel (R-IL), and former Congressmen Barber Conable and Richard White, and Professor Norman Orstein sitting on House Panel on the changing role of Parties and Partisanship in Congress, as part of symposium on 200th anniversary of Congress. Rep. Foley: "One of the interesting things to be in the discussion of Gramm-Rudman, for example at the end of the last session, is that there is a tendency-- I have to say this very carefully-- for the Republicans in the Senate and the Democrats in the House to feel a certain compatibility because they were majority parties. They were dealing with trying to bring some resolution out of an extraordinarily complex and difficult situation. While to some degree Democrats in the Senate and Republicans in the House were the minority parties with respect to that operation. Partisanship, just on the issue, this is a very delicate matter. My view on the next time we have a contested election, the Foley Plan is for the House of Representatives to create a master, a Congressional master in the form of a federal judge. I don't want to get back into this issue again, but it was the worst example in my 22 years of people of good will on both sides feeling absolutely outraged at what they regarded was the partisan activity of their neighbors. The complaints came from the Republican side, but the feeling on the Democratic side was just as strong, that the effort that we had made we thought, to bend over backwards to be fair, was being touted as being partisanship. The only solution to that is probably a structure when you give it to federal judge, retired, and have him come back and say what and who should be seated... The notion that we should pass back and forth the government of the United States either in the Congress or in the Presidency just because it's a good management tool to shape everybody up is something I have to dissent on." Rep. Berman listening. Adult Caucasian men give brief retorts off-camera, to which Rep. Foley states: "I mean, it is a public choice after all." Rep. Berman makes last comment: "Norm's willing to change that and make the decision himself."
Capitol Journal - House Panel Symposium on Bipartisanship
Panel on the changing role of Parties and Partisanship in Congress, as part of symposium on the 200th anniversary of Congress. U.S. Representative Howard Berman (D-CA) moving on to next question. Adult Caucasian male at microphone, asks: "Lonnie John's my only affiliation, as I happen to live in Bob Michel's districts. For Tom Foley and Bob, Mr. Majority Whip, what do you see as necessary and desirable qualities in a minority leader? And Bob, anything can happen, what do you see as necessary and desirable qualities in a majority leader?" Adult Caucasian men and women listening to question, as well as panel consisting of U.S. Representatives Tom Foley (D-WA), Berman, and Robert Michel (R-IL), former Congressmen Barber Conable and Richard White, and Professor Norman Orstein. Rep. Foley: "I think Bob Michel probably expresses, personally, all that I think is valuable in a minority leader. Having crucified him by that comment, I'll say that both leadership problems today, as eloquently said by Barber Conable, involve a number of personal capacities and undertakings. It's harder to work today than it us was forty or fifty years ago because you have to take into account so many different things. Also, frankly, there is not the capacity to simply take and march forward with it without considering whether the troops will follow. There are much more fractionated and, I must say, fractious elements in both parties. So we don't have it thought that only Democrats have widespread divisions and philosophical variants. Anybody who know the current House of Representatives on the Republican side, knows that there are people who are very different in their approach, stylistically and substantively in their approach toward the legislative mandate, and their approach toward how a minority should behave. And that is an enormous problem for any minority leader. It is true that the minority is under pressure to oppose. But I think as it is the responsibility of the majority to reach out, and I would say more than we have done, to seek opportunities to bring minority cooperation, and consultation, and compromise. It is also the duty of a minority to try and find out where they can compromise with majority, and not just take the position of no, no, no. The position that the duty of the minority is to oppose is a position that some people take. That itself absolutely prevents, let me say by definition, anything but partisanship and rancor." Rep. Berman: "Mr. Michel, you're up to bat. Could you grab the mic, please?"
Capitol Journal - House Panel Symposium on Bipartisanship
Panel on the changing role of Parties and Partisanship in Congress, as part of symposium on the 200th anniversary of Congress. U.S. Representatives Tom Foley (D-WA), Howard Berman (D-CA), and Robert Michel (R-IL), former Congressmen Barber Conable and Richard White, and Professor Norman Orstein. Michel provides his answer on the qualities he'd like to see in a Majority Leader: "First of all, let me say I don't know if we've touched on the advent of television coverage of the House proceedings. And I mention it because I think it's had a definite affect on the mannerism and the whole methodology by which the House operates. If I look back before those days when we had the coverage of television, members were inclined to have a better attendance, frankly, on the floor of the House during the course of a spirited debate during more of the amendment process, rather than calling a quorum just as we were ready to wrap up for, maybe, either one of the last one or two speakers to make the case. And I look back at how much more instrumental, at that time, Carl Albert, John McCormack, as very vigorous Majority Leaders, and Charlie Halleck, on our side at the time, as I recall, just really mixed it up back and forth. But it was shared by more and more of the members because, frankly, they were there on the floor of the House, rather than back in their offices monitoring the thing on the tube, and then coming over only to vote. I think that's been a significant change in the way the House has operated. But as a majority, well, I just once love to have the sufficient number of votes to say we're going to be in charge for a session or for a Congress. I'll tell you, being in the minority as long as we have, you would surely have empathy and sympathy for those who would be in the minority; to bring them up to speed, keep them up to speed on scheduling, and all the rest. Sometimes we feel we've been short-changed or short-tripped. I have to say to my good friend, Tom Foley, however, he's been the best cooperative individual I know of. Frankly, I would suspect, probably, he'll be, in the next Congress, the Majority Leader, and Jim Wright would be the Speaker, and that if I'm still fortunate to be our leader, that we would have a working relationship, and that it would a very warm and cordial one, and I'd always feel like I was in on the take-off. That's the kind of thing you build up over a period of time. I must say, for example, my relationship with the Speaker is such that I'm still somewhat hesitant what that relationship will be like with Jim Wright. Simply because I haven't experience it, like I have with the Speaker. The Speaker, I know. I can just about tell him what he's going to tell me when we get together. But I'm not sure how Jim Wright will treat that office and what our relationship will be in role until I've had an opportunity to stretch it out, and let it run its course."
Capitol Journal - House Panel Symposium on Bipartisanship
Panel on the changing role of Parties and Partisanship in Congress, as part of symposium on the 200th anniversary of Congress; U.S. Representatives Tom Foley (D-WA), Howard Berman (D-CA), and Robert Michel (R-IL), former Congressmen Barber Conable and Richard White. Congressman Berman: "Mr. Conable and then Mr. White is gonna have the proverbial last shot." Conable: "I don't have anything that relevant to what we were just talking about, but one interesting element to competitive partisanship that I thought was quite instructive. In 1969, Gerald Ford came to me and said, 'It's time something was done about the mindless operation of the seniority rule in this Congress, and the Republicans have got to do it. The Democrats have the majority in House and they've got the weight of the world on their shoulders. They're making the real decisions, and it's very difficult for them to do. Second, they have the seniority problem. The people have pruned away our dead wood, historically. Poor, old feeble Democrats, a lot of them get returned to office without any effort, so they've got a seniority problem. And third, they have a diversity problem that we don't have. Unless the Democrats can go through the Chairs on the way from-- and hopefully, this is going to continue-- Whip to Majority Leader to Speaker, they get into terrible fights. And that wouldn't happen if they changed the seniority rule in some way that resulted in them having to choose their committee leaders. So the Republicans have got to take the lead.' And in 1969, our task force, which I chaired, came up with the plan that, four years later, was adopted by the Democrats, and it meant a lot more to them than it did to us because they had the seniority problem. So they ceremoniously beheaded several committee chairmen while all we did was give legitimacy to our leaders. But if we hadn't been willing to exercise partisan leadership on that, it would have been very difficult for the Democrats to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into changing the seniority system. Because that was the price, at that point, that the South had for staying in the Democratic Party. And they had to do it as a competitive matter. Partisanship can have a creative effect on a body like ours. And so, partisanship isn't, per-say, bad. The competition of the parties, if it's real competition, is very likely to make for a more vital institution." Former U.S. Representative Richard C. White taking notes and listening.
Capitol Journal - House Panel Symposium on Bipartisanship
Panel on the changing role of Parties and Partisanship in Congress, as part of symposium on the 200th anniversary of Congress. U.S. Representative Howard Berman (D-CA) moves on to next speaker. Former Rep. Richard White: "...really just want to fill out what former Congressman Conable was talking about. Two things about partisanship we should remember: one is, let's not confuse the partisanship role in the Congress with the overall Republican/Democratic Party partisanship. I only know of one time where a Democratic Party Chairman ever really tried to impose his view of party policy on the Congress, and that was back when Mr. Rayburn-- and Paul Butler was Chairman of the DNC-- and Mr. Rayburn was Speaker. Chairman Butler made an attempt to discipline what he thought... and he had a celebrated meeting with Speaker Rayburn and Majority Leader Johnson of the Senate, at the invitation of Mr. Johnson and Mr. Rayburn, and he came rather bashfully saying that he'd be glad to follow the leadership of Mr. Rayburn and Leader Johnson. And I think that's quite appropriate because these men are elected by the people of their constituents and they're elected by their peers. The DNC Chairman is not elected by anybody other than members of the DNC. It serves a special function. That particular partisan role is kept at arms length, and it should be, and it is at this time. The other thing about it is, despite the partisan role that Republicans and Democrats play in the Congress, there are certain things about all leaders on both sides of the aisle that are true. It is true that Leader Michel described those basic elements and personality of the good leader. I would add to that, that in my experience, what little study I have done on this particular subject, there are a couple of other things that are in common of the leadership on both sides. One of them is a particularly intense love of the institution itself. All former Speakers, all current Speakers and Leaders of the House that I know of on both sides of the aisle particularly love the institution of the Congress itself. And secondly-- well, there's nothing second to integrity, I just have to say equally-- the integrity of those individuals has to be without question. The giving of one's word is that integrity. It just has to be there. The institution will not work unless that integrity between the leaderships on both sides is there, and as far as I know, it's always been there, and I know it is now."
Capitol Journal - House Panel Symposium on Bipartisanship
Panel on the changing role of Parties and Partisanship in Congress, as part of symposium on the 200th anniversary of Congress. Former U.S. Representative Richard White continues giving remarks on the hallmarks of good leadership in Congress: "And the other part is respect. I see the relationship between Leader Michel and Speaker O'Neill, and I think that's fairly typical of effective leaders of the Congress. That's not just a new thing. For this institution, you have to have that. It goes back to, I can remember-- I hate to be totally anecdotal-- as a young man, I was again running errands for Mr. Rayburn on election night-- I believe it was 1956. I've been around a while, so I forget what year was which-- but I came in very excitedly into his room because he's monitoring the Presidential elections, and I told him that Joe Martin was behind in Massachusetts. And I, as a young Democrat official, thought that he'd welcome that with glee. Mr. Rayburn said, 'You stay on that, young man. That's one of the best men that's ever served in Congress. I want to know how that race is going.' He was terribly disturbed that Joe Martin was about to be defeated in the early returns. Of later Joe Martin... And then I was reading a book about these two men the other night --- perhaps for this --- and when Joe Martin was defeated by Charlie Halleck for the leadership role, Joe Martin went immediately to Sam Rayburn for advice and comfort at that time. Those are the things that make great leaders, that respect and friendship that develops there while the partisanship is there. These men are patriots. So the partisanship never goes to the point to where it's adverse, I think, to the interests of the United States."
Capitol Journal - House Panel Symposium on Bipartisanship
Panel on the changing role of Parties and Partisanship in Congress, as part of symposium on the 200th anniversary of Congress. U.S. Representative Howard Berman (D-CA): "Thank you, Mr. White. Speaking respect and integrity, I want to, on behalf of Mr. Michel, Mr. White, Mr. Conable, Mr. Foley, and Professor Ornstein, make a quick comment about the integrity of today's chairman and the great respect we have for Congressman Jerry Lewis, who put this whole thing together, and who thought of it, and we're just very honored, Jerry, to have been here with you. Thank you." Rep. Jerry Lewis (R-CA) comes to podium to thank everyone for coming; thanks the staff and support people, prepares floor for next session.