Waco Hearings - DAY 3
Waco Hearings - DAY 3
WACO HEARINGS: 1:30 - 2:32PM - Master Number 10932 - INTRODUCTION: The following footage from the Waco Hearings consists of the questioning of the seventh group of panelists. The panelists are: Lloyd Bentsen; Former Treasury Secretary, Steve Higgins; former Director of the ATF, John Simpson; former Acting Assistant Secretary of the Treasure, Christopher Cuyler; ATF Liaison for the Assistant Secretary and Michael Langan; former Acting Assistant Secretary Deputy of the Treasure. The following Representatives present questions, and or statements to the panelists: Heineman, Bryant, McCollun, Barr and Shadegg. 13:30:11 Old footage from Master Number 10931 shows Chairman Zeliff recessing the Sub-Committee Chamber. 13:33:11 Fresh footage still shows the Sub-Committee Chamber in recess. 14:11:42 Chairman Zeliff is shown bringing the Sub-Committee Chamber back to order. 14:12:10 Congressman Heineman begins his time by praising Congresswoman Jackson-Lee's recent round of questioning. Turning then to Mr. Cuyler, he asks where he derived his information from for his inter-office memorandum. He replies from a briefing on February 11th and from talking with Division Chiefs at their headquarters. Referencing from the memo, Congressman Heineman asks if it is an inaccurate statement for him to have stated, "a well reasoned, comprehensive plan has been approved which allows for all contingencies." Mr. Cuyler replies that, at the time he wrote it, no. Rep. Heineman states that he also believes the document to be accurate. Congressman Heineman then asks the panelists if any of them are familiar with the disciplinary policies of the Federal Government. Secretary Bentsen replies by quoting from a document. He states the ATF did not destroy ATF personal records. Rep. Heineman then asserts he does not believe Mr. Sarabyn and Mr. Chojnacki should have been fired, but rather sanctioned, and then asks if due to the enormity of the raid, if there where any high-ranking officers from the ATF on the scene. Mr. Higgins replies that someone was, but doesn't recall who that person was. Referencing to the testimony from possibly author Mr. Reavis or editor and writer Ray Yon, Congressman Heineman inquires about Mr. Sarabyn and Mr. Chojnacki being told to keep their mouths shut. Mr. Higgins states it is department policy for them not to discuss any incident with anyone unless they have a right to know. Rep. Heineman then yields his remaining time. 14:17:57 Congressman Bryant begins his time by asking Mr. Higgins who appointed him as ATF Director. He replies it was the Secretary of the Treasury under then President Reagan. Mr. Higgins is then asked who his boss is, and replies that the Secretary of the Treasury Department is, but states that at the time of the raid his supervisor was Mr. Simpson, then the Deputy Secretary and next the Secretary. Congressman Bryant then inquires about the terms length and appointment dates of those individuals. Continuing with Mr. Higgins, Congressman Bryant asks when he first meet with Secretary Bentsen to discuss the ATF. Mr. Higgins replies he doesn't recall there being such a meeting, and adds that all communication between him and the Treasury would have gone through Mr. Simpson. Looking for clarification, Rep. Bryant asks Mr. Higgins if he ever meet with Secretary Bentsen prior to the raid. He replies no. Mr. Higgins is then asked if he knew Mr. Altman prior to the raid, and again he replies no. Looking for clarification again, Rep. Bryant states to Mr. Higgins that as Director of the ATF, you never meet with the Secretary during the first 30 days of his appointment. He replies no. Mr. Higgins is then asked who the highest-ranking officer was at Treasure that he spoke with concerning the raid, and he replies Mr. Simpson. Keeping with Mr. Higgins, Rep. Bryant then asks him if there was a formal briefing process he was obligated to so as to inform ranking Treasure officials of his department's dealings. Mr. Higgins states high-ranking officials were accessible, but states that regular meetings were not scheduled. 14:22:19 Congressman McCollun begins his time by asking Mr. Higgins if any high level meetings occurred which focused on devising ways to arrest David Koresh off the compound. Mr. Higgins replies he asked the planners if Koresh should be arrested off the compound, but states that he was told that wasn't a sound option. Rep. McCollun then asks Mr. Simpson and Mr. Cuyler if Mr. Higgins had discussed that issue with them, or if the issue was ever brought up at all. Both men state no. 14:23:55 Congressman Barr begins his time by asking Mr. Langan to refer to a document dated April 14, 1993. It is a memorandum from Mr. Macnamera to him and Mr. Simpson concerning the ATF investigations being stopped. Rep. Barr asks him if the purpose of conducting a Shooting Review is to obtain the truth. Mr. Langan states that it is unless there is an under-riding interest. Inquiring further, Congressman Barr asks him if that would mean a search for something other than the truth. Mr. Langan replies that he was only the receiver of the memo, and that he would surmise that the authors of it had their reasons for stating what they have. Continuing with Mr. Langan, Rep. Barr then asks if it is normal for when ever time a Shooting Review takes place, that a memo like this is released. Mr. Langan states no. Pushing the question, Congressman Barr then asks if this memo was sent because extraordinary circumstances occurred at Waco. Mr. Langan attempts to answer the question but is cut off by Rep. Barr who states he is yielding back the remainder of his time. 14:27:43 Congressman Shadegg begins his time by stating the Minority has repeatedly stated that the hearings are not producing any new information. He then states to Secretary Bentsen that Treasury has conducted an interview, and that ATF Agents have testified it is only 70% accurate. Secretary Bentsen interjects to state that he doesn't agree with that, but adds he can see why the agents would say that. 14:29:35 Congressman McCollun begins his time by asking Mr. Higgins if he had spoke with Mr. Hartnett about arresting David Koresh off the compound. He replies that he did, in addition to, other raid planners on February 12, 1993. Continuing on, he states it was at this meeting that they concluded arresting Koresh was no longer an option. Rep. McCollun then asks if he ever questioned the planner's decision. He states that in hindsight he would have questioned many things. Pressing the issue, Congressman McCollun asks if he left the planners believing this was not a major issue. Mr. Higgins that that the notion Koresh should be arrested off the compound was dropped after that meeting and that the raid that went forward as planned. Continuing on with Mr. Higgins, Rep. McCollun asks if he was aware the ATF had an undercover house. He replies yes. 14:32:00 TIME OUT.