Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Master 10363 Part 2 Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 18, 1973 - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) Caucus Room, Russell Senate Office Building, Washington DC
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Senator Joseph MONTOYA (D-NM). Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. McCord, going back to the time that you were hired, I'd like to ask you if you had a personal acquaintance with the President? Mr. McCORD. No sir. Senator MONTOYA. Had you worked with him in any capacity either while he was Vice President or before? Mr. McCORD. No sir. Senator MONTOYA. Had you done any work in his behalf while you were working for the CIA? (Fensterwald speaking to James McCord about response) Mr. McCORD. I was a staff member of CIA while he was Vice President. He may have had access to material or reports which I wrote. Senator MONTOYA. Did you ever speak to him during those assignments? Mr. McCORD. I don't recall it, no sir. Senator MONTOYA. Who was the person who recommended you for this particular job assignment? Mr. McCORD. Mr. John Caulfield. Senator MONTOYA. And where did you meet him? Mr. McCORD. At the executive office building in Washington D.C. Senator MONTOYA. And where is that executive office building with respect to the White House? Mr. McCORD. It adjoins it, it's on the White House grounds. Senator MONTOYA. How many visits did you have with Mr. Caulfield before you were hired? Mr. McCORD. I believe it was three or four sir. Senator MONTOYA. And why did you have three or four visits, were they extensive interviews and did you go into the details of your assignment? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir, they were two-fold purposes, they were an opportunity for Mr. Caulfield to interview me personally and learn more about me and my background (video distortion) campaign. Senator MONTOYA. Did Mr. Caulfield at that time discuss with you the clandestine nature of your assignment? Mr. McCORD. No sir. Senator MONTOYA. When did you and Mr. Caulfield, if you did, engage in such a conversation? Mr. McCORD. I believe it followed the June 17th break-in. Senator MONTOYA. That's when he was discussing with you the possibility of clemency? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator MONTOYA. Or shortly after the June 17th break-in and before the trial, which was it? Mr. McCORD. My first conversation with him was shortly after June 17th, sometime in July or August. Senator MONTOYA. And was he an employee of the White House at that time? Mr. McCORD. No sir. Senator MONTOYA. Where was he employed? Mr. McCORD. He was either employed or due to be employed at the Treasury Dept. in the position I mentioned earlier. Senator MONTOYA. And what was that conversation about? Mr. McCORD. This was a conversation in which, about which I referred this morning. A telephone call in which he stated that he was making a trip overseas and if I needed to reach him, to call his home and leave word and he would call me back. Senator MONTOYA. Now, after you had the three interviews with him, who else did you see prior to being hired on a part-time basis in October of 1971? Mr. McCORD. Mr. Robert Odle, at the Committee for the Re-Election of the President who made an initial interview with me, with Mr. Caulfield present. Senator MONTOYA. And were you hired pursuant to this interview? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator MONTOYA. And you became a part-time employee of the operation there? Mr. McCORD. I did.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Senator MONTOYA. Did you at anytime discuss with Mr. Odle the triple assignment which you related this morning was your assignment or was the nature of the operation with respect to Mr. Liddy's involvement? Mr. McCORD. No sir, I did not discuss that with Mr. Odle. Senator MONTOYA. Now, when you stated this morning that one of the assignments or that the total assignment would involve getting photographic information, political espionage and electronic surveillance when did you first find out about the composition of your entire operation? Mr. McCORD. I believe it would have been in April 1972 when I met Mr. Hunt for the first time. Senator MONTOYA. And I believe you have previously stated that during the course of February you were in touch with Mr. Liddy and other individuals with respect to planning for the clandestine operation which later turned out to be Watergate. Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator MONTOYA. And where did this take place? Mr. McCORD. I missed the first part of your question sir ..... Senator MONTOYA. Where did the initial conversations with respect to the watergate planning take place? Mr. McCORD. In Mr. Liddy's office at the committee to re-elect the president. Senator MONTOYA. And was this in February? Mr. McCORD. January and February initially yes sir. Senator MONTOYA. And who else was in on this? Mr. McCORD. No one else sir. Senator MONTOYA. And were you aware that a plan was being formulated? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. (Senator Montoya asking question, man taking notes on committee table and court reporter seen in shot) Senator MONTOYA. And were you also aware that the plan was being formulated for submission to the attorney general? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator MONTOYA. And did you provide any input to this plan? Mr. McCORD. Oh yes sir. Senator MONTOYA. What kind of input did you provide? Mr. McCORD. In the nature of information Mr. Liddy sought about different costs of equipment, electronic equipment and the different components that he was interested in, the transmission devices and the receiving devices in particular. Senator MONTOYA. And did you discuss with Mr. Liddy at that time as to man power requirements and other necessary details to carry out the plan? Mr. McCORD. Oh yes sir. Senator MONTOYA. Give us the substance of those conversations. Mr. McCORD. He was interested in the overall cost first of all, of these types of operations specifically referring to electronic operations, what the pieces of equipment would cost, what it took to receive them, what type of receivers were best, he was interested in the best type of equipment in this sense for this operation. He wanted to know how many pieces of equipment it would take for the democratic national committee, for example to transmit and receive transmissions from the democratic national committee headquarters, secondly in connection with the McGovern committee headquarters, and thirdly in connection with the democratic national convention site in Miami Florida. Senator MONTOYA. What was the value of the equipment which you used at the democratic national committee? Mr. McCORD. I would guess about fifteen thousand dollars in total, but I'm not sure. Senator MONTOYA. Fifteen thousand? Mr. McCORD. Fifteen yes sir. Senator MONTOYA. And what was the value of the equipment which you used in Miami? Mr. McCORD. I did not use any there sir. Senator MONTOYA. Were you contemplating using the same equipment from the national committee at the Miami convention later? Mr. McCORD. No sir, that was separate equipment. Senator MONTOYA. And where else were you going to use equipment? Mr. McCORD. Those three places that I've stated, the McGovern committee headquarters, democratic national committee, and the convention site for the democratic party in Miami Florida.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of James McCord.
Senator MONTOYA. Well, doesn't stand to reason that for the expenditure of 65,000 that you were going to launch quite a few operations? Mr. McCORD. There were three separate locations, and it would take .... Senator MONTOYA. Well, at the rate of 15,000 a piece you'd have some equipment left for other operations. Now, why was the budget so high? Mr. McCORD. Well, I think to answer your question sir, there was plan for example for the democratic national committee, two separate operations there. Not just the one that was initially planned, Mr. Liddy budgeted for adequate, what he felt was adequate equipment for all three locations, and it would not simply take, just you asked the question how much was the value of the equipment that was installed and I gave you the figure of about 15,000 dollars. The additional equipment that was taken in, was an additional cost factor there, does that answer your question or have I not? Senator MONTOYA. Well, let me ask you this, did you assume when you purchased this equipment for an approximate sum of 65,000 dollars that it would be used solely for the three operations about which you've testified, or did you assume that this equipment would be used for other operations to which you would not be related in involvement? Mr. McCORD. Oh yes sir, this was a part of it. Senator MONTOYA. Sir? Mr. McCORD. Yes, the walkie-talkie equipment for example, was scheduled as I understood it for use in certain surveillance operations by the cuban individuals I've referred to against demonstrators and violence oriented groups in Miami, Florida so that is an example of my reasons for answering yes to your question. Senator MONTOYA. So then am I to assume that other than your own involvement, there could have been other involvements in other parts of the country or even in Washington? Mr. McCORD. In the communicate, the walkie-talkie equipment specifically I knew of no other immediate plan use of the electronic equipment such could have been possible. Senator MONTOYA. Now how much telephone tapping equipment did you buy and was this just barely sufficient or was this in surplus after you would service the needs for the three places which you had in mind at the time? Namely the watergate, the democratic convention in Miami, and the McGovern headquarters. (James McCord puts on eye glasses, sorts through papers) Mr. McCORD. In the neighborhood of forty-five thousand dollars worth of equipment planned for those three locations and possible other use against demonstrators in Miami. Senator MONTOYA. So you had 20,000 dollars left in equipment, wouldn't you say? Mr. McCORD. Perhaps more than that sir. Senator MONTOYA. How much more? Mr. McCORD. You're referring to the um, I mentioned the 15,000 .... Senator MONTOYA. And it stands to reason that you could re-use some of this equipment that you were using at watergate and that you intended to use at Miami and also at McGovern headquarters, isn't that correct? Mr. McCORD. No sir, I believed it was planned to be used concurrently. Senator MONTOYA. Sir? Mr. McCORD. I think it was planned to be used in three separate operations concurrently, at least three. Senator MONTOYA. Now, did you have any employees under you or under your direction who were performing any of the activities within the master plan that you worked on initially? Mr. McCORD. Just Mr. Baldwin. Senator MONTOYA. And you stated that one of the purposes or objectives was to gather photographic information. Now, who was in charge of this division? Mr. McCORD. Mr. Hunt. Senator MONTOYA. And who was in charge of political espionage? Mr. McCORD. Mr. Liddy as I understand it, and Mr. Hunt were jointly involved in the two. I understood Mr. Liddy was in charge.