Watergate Hearings - testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) May 22, 1973
Watergate Hearings - testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) May 22, 1973
Watergate Hearings - Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 22, 1973 - testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) Caucus Room, Russell Senate Office Building, Washington, DC
Watergate Hearings - testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) May 22, 1973
Senator Herman TALMADGE (D-GA). Mr. McCord, among other things in your testimony this morning you stated that many efforts were made to persuade you or to coerce you to state that the bugging operation on the Democratic National Committee was a CIA operation? Mr. James McCORD. Yes sir. Senator TALMADGE. Would you state the individuals who urged you to do that? One you stated was Mr. Hunt, am I correct? Mr. McCORD. Sir, I believe I'll correct that impression if I left it. I had heard from Mr. Bernard Barker specifically that Mr. Hunt had brought pressure to bear upon Mr. Barker and the Cubans to use as their defense that this was a CIA operation. Mr. Hunt did not directly bring that pressure upon me, others did but not him. Senator TALMADGE. Barker reported to you that Hunt had urged him to urge you to do so, is that correct? Mr. McCORD. That's correct. Senator TALMADGE. Now, Barker as I understand it was one of the people involved in the Watergate operation, was he not? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator TALMADGE. Barker, I believe has been granted immunity and has not been convicted, is that correct? (senators heard commenting) Senator TALMADGE. He plead guilty and was convicted I'm informed by staff. Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator TALMADGE. Alright, now who else besides Barker was involved in urging you to blame this on the CIA? You stated two other names, I think one of them was Bitman and the other one was names Alch. Mr. McCORD. Yes sir, I referred to conversations with Mr. Gerald Alch on this topic. Senator TALMADGE. Now let's see who Mr. Alch is, give me his full name. Mr. McCORD. (spells) Gerald Alch. Senator TALMADGE. Who is Mr. Alch? Mr. McCORD. He was my defense attorney, through the trial in January 1973 who's services I had engaged earlier. Senator TALMADGE. He had no connection with the Committee to Elect the President did he? He was your own lawyer? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator TALMADGE. Alright, and he urged you to blame it on the CIA did he? Mr. McCORD. He urged me to use that as my defense, yes sir.
Watergate Hearings - testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) May 22, 1973
Senator TALMADGE. Alright, now Mr. Alch and who else urged you to do that? Mr. McCORD. I believe I've stated in my testimony that stories were circulating earlier stemming out of the Committee for the Re-Election of the President that the committee lawyers themselves had been told as early as July ..... Senator TALMADGE. Let's get specific, now I don't want stories circulating, I want you to name days and names and places, that's evidence, roomers is not. Mr. McCORD. Alright sir. Yes sir. The details as I related them in the memorandum which I read this morning on the topic of the pressure to lay at the feet of the CIA covers the full extent of my knowledge sir, of any pressure upon me. And it came from principally through the Attorney himself, so in so as far as I was personally involved that was the source. Senator TALMADGE. Alright, now you have named Mr. Barker .... Mr. McCORD. (conversing with lawyer) I'm sorry sir .... Senator TALMADGE. ... and you have named Mr. Alch. Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator TALMADGE. Who is your own lawyer. Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator TALMADGE. And I believe in your testimony in chief memorandum you read you also referred to a man by the name of Bitman, did you not? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator TALMADGE. Now who is Mr. Bitman? Mr. McCORD. Mr. Bitman was the attorney, William O. Bitman Attorney for Mr. E. Howard Hunt, one of the other defendants. Senator TALMADGE. Alright, did he have any connection with the government in any way or any connection with or any connection with the Republican National Committee or the Committee to Re-Elect the President? Mr. McCORD. (takes off glasses) Not to my knowledge sir. Senator TALMADGE. What I'm trying to get at is the source of this pressure that you have contended was brought upon you to blame this on the CIA, thus far you have not connected that either with the committee to re-elect the president or to the White House, or to any other individual to my knowledge, one was your own lawyer, one was engaged in the crime with you, and the third man was the lawyer for Mr. Liddy was it, Bitman? Mr. McCORD. Mr. Hunt. Senator TALMADGE. Mr. Hunt. Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator TALMADGE. He was Mr. Hunt's lawyer, and those three individuals were the only ones that urged you to blame this on the CIA, is that a fair statement? Mr. McCORD. (confers with lawyer, Fensterwald) Yes sir, that's essentially correct. Senator TALMADGE. So no one else, anywhere, whatever urged you to blame it on the CIA except these three individuals, is that correct? Mr. McCORD. None that I can recall at this time, no sir.
Watergate Hearings - testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) May 22, 1973
Senator TALMADGE. Now, did Mr. Barker, or the other of these so called Cuban Americans ever come to you during the trial and tell you that they had been offered executive clemency by Mr. Hunt? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator TALMADGE. Will you describe the attitude and demeanor at that time. Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. I can recall specifically that during the first week of the trial and beginning on the first day on January 8th, Mr. Barker came to me in the corridor of the outside I believe the larger courtroom at the US District Court Building in Washington in-between during breaks in the court proceedings and proceeded to relate to me the pressure which he said was being apposed upon him and upon the other men who were defendants Mr. Sturgess, Mr. Gonzalez, Mr. Martinez. Pressure that he stated was stemming from Mr. Hunt and other un-named individuals to plead guilty and to go off to jail or prison and ultimately to receive executive clemency and to receive financial support for their families while they were in prison and promises and he stated promises were made that they would be given help in obtaining a job or quote "rehabilitation" after prison. Mr. Barker spoke to me several times during that week regarding that particular pressure upon him which he described as intense. As he stated that at first that he was planning not to plead guilty, and then subsequently as the days progressed during the week itself he began to tell me that he was thinking more and more seriously about it and as I recall about Wednesday of that week, roughly mid-week sometime he seemed to have his mind made up that he would go ahead and exceed to the pressure and plead guilty, and he put in just about those words, and to accept the executive clemency. He was in a pretty highly emotional state, at one point in time, the first day or two, stating that he was fighting the pressure as best he was able, and it was clear from his demeanor that he was very worked up and very emotionally overwrought, split between what he was being forced to do and what he felt perhaps he ought to do in going ahead to proceed with the case and to see if he could get a fair trial. He was not the only one, his family, his wife and his daughter related the same pressure to me, sometimes in his presence. Senator TALMADGE. Did any of the so called cuban americans besides Mr. Barker relate similar pressure? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir, all of them. Senator TALMADGE. Every one of them? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir.
Watergate Hearings - testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) May 22, 1973
Senator TALMADGE. Now, did Mr. Hunt or Mrs. Hunt ever give you information that they were in touch with the committee to re-elect the president, or the White House, about money or executive clemency? Mr. McCORD. That they were in touch with them? Senator TALMADGE. Yes. Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator TALMADGE. Would you relate that? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir, during the meetings, personal meetings and telephone meetings beginning in July 1972 concerning money and beginning in about October 1972 concerning executive clemency. The term executive clemency I first heard I believe from Mr. Hunt in early October, late September early October when I would see him at the courtroom, or when he would call me by telephone thereafter he subsequently mentioned it almost every call, his wife referred to it, referred to executive that in effect that in substance what they were saying was that the defendants were being promised executive clemency if they went off to prison and had to serve time. And this was sometimes, the word executive clemency would be followed or accompanied by statements about financial support and rehabilitation. Senator TALMADGE. Did Mrs. Hunt state who gave her authority to make such a promise? Mr. McCORD. My recollections of her conversations were that she was saying that she was transmitting this word to me from her husband, she did not specifically mention that I can recall now, who gave it to him. I can draw only one conclusion as to where it came from, because ... Senator TALMADGE. She didn't state the source of her authority to make that promise then? Mr. McCORD. I can't recall such statements on her part. Senator TALMADGE. Who did she say she was in communication with? Mr. McCORD. With the committee to re-elect the president, the attorney's for the committee specifically. Senator TALMADGE. Who specifically? There's more than one individual involved in the committee, I want you to name specific names if you know. Mr. McCORD. I can tell you what she stated sir, if this is what you want. Senator TALMADGE. Tell me what she stated, that's the question I asked you. Mr. McCORD. Alright sir, she stated that she herself was in touch with Mr. Kenneth Parkinson, one of the attorney's for the committee for the re-election of the president, she stated that her husband Mr. Hunt had been in touch in July with Mr. Paul O'Brien also an attorney with Mr. Parkinson for the committee to re-elect the president.
Watergate Hearings - testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord) May 22, 1973
Senator TALMADGE. Now, Mrs. Hunt was the intermediary that transmitted money to you, was she not? Mr. McCORD. She was sir. Senator TALMADGE. How much did she transmit, all told? Mr. McCORD. Forty six thousand dollars, as I recall of which about half was attorney's fees. Senator TALMADGE. 46,000 dollars which about half was to be used to pay your attorney fees. Mr. McCORD. Twenty five thousand. Senator TALMADGE. 25,000. And the other was to be used to pay your salary. Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator TALMADGE. And your salary was 3,000 per month as I recall. Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator TALMADGE. This was all paid in brand new one hundred dollar bills, is that correct? Mr. McCORD. Most of it sir. Senator TALMADGE. Any of it in checks? Mr. McCORD. No sir. Senator TALMADGE. All in cash? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator TALMADGE. Did they state why they were paying you in cash and not by checks? Mr. McCORD. No sir. Senator TALMADGE. Didn't you think that was an unusual method of payment? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator TALMADGE. Did it cause you to wonder about the circumstances of that involvement? Mr. McCORD. Yes sir. Senator Herman TALMADGE (D-GA). And how long has your salary continued to be paid? When was the last time you received these $100 bills in payment of your salary of 3,000 a month Mr. McCORD. The last payment was December 2nd, and it was a payment for December through January. Senator TALMADGE. In other words, you've been paid through January and not since that time. Mr. McCORD. That's correct sir. Senator TALMADGE. I expect my time has expired, has it Mr. Chairman? Senator Sam ERVIN. (puts on eye glasses, writing on pad of paper) You've used 13 minutes. Senator TALMADGE. Then I yield at this point to my colleagues.