Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of Robert Odle.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of Robert Odle.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities May 17, 1973 - Testimony of Robert Odle. United States Senate Caucus Room, Washington DC
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of Robert Odle.
Senator Sam ERVIN (D-NC). Mr. Odle I have a question or two. You stated this morning that G. Gordon Liddy and Jeb Stuart Magruder were not on the best of terms. Mr. ODLE. Yes sir that was my impression. Senator ERVIN. Do you know what was the cause of the lack of good will? Mr. ODLE. Well, I can give you one reason and a probably not that important. But, I moved Mr. Liddy's office at one point from the fourth floor to the eighth floor. And Mr. Liddy very vigorously objected to that and tried to get me to change it, and I said I'm just not going to do that, I can't, I need the space. And he appealed that to Mr. Magruder, and Mr. Magruder said I don't want to get involved in office space with Odle, whatever Odle says about office space is what I'm gonna do. And they had a number of serious battles about the location of Mr. Liddy's office. I don't, I mean that's just one example. I think that Mr. Liddy was a little bit older than Mr. Magruder and possibly didn't like working for a younger man, but that's speculation on my part. Senator ERVIN. Now, you spoke this morning about a shredder. Mr. ODLE. Yes sir. Senator ERVIN. A shredder is a machine that's used to destroy document documentary matters in such a way that like Humpty Dumpty they can't be put back together again, isn't that so? Mr. ODLE. Yes sir it is. Senator ERVIN. And it's used for to destroy useless papers, and it's also used to destroy papers which the destroyer wishes to have concealed from identification and reading isn't it? Mr. ODLE. Well, I would suppose so. It was used primarily during the campaign so that people wouldn't come into our offices and maybe co-op the cleaning crew. You know that happened in the '68 campaign to the Nixon campaign in that very same building. A columnist in Washington came in and talked to the cleaning people and said "We would like your waste paper" and so that was just one way of seeing that that columnist didn't get our waste paper. Senator ERVIN. Yes, in other words you didn't want the general public, the purpose of a shredder is to make it certain that the documents cannot come to the attention, the contents of the document cannot come to the attention of anyone who might be interested outside the organization in reading those documents. Mr. ODLE. I would think that would be a fair statement, especially those people who at that time we were running against. Senator ERVIN. Now, ordinarily the purpose of a document is to preserve a record of what the document records, isn't it? Mr. ODLE. I would suppose so. Senator ERVIN. And um, what is the purpose of making a record and then destroying that record? Mr. ODLE. Well sir, I don't know that there was. I would think that the basic purpose of the, of that shredding machine we were talking about was to pick up the waste paper in the evening and not the documents. You know, let me just say one thing, um we tried from the beginning to save documents. Because, we thought this campaign was, despite these other situations, was a fairly organized, well run, fairly efficient campaign. That seems funny now, I know, but we did think that. (courtroom laughs) And we wanted to save the documents 'cause we thought it might be interesting for a scholar to look back at a hundred years..... (courtroom laughs, applauds, clapping) (Senator Ervin hits gavel several times, to bring the courtroom to order) Mr. ODLE. I can only tell you of our intention, I in light of recent events that might appear funny, but I think the point I'm making you'll find interesting. So, we did save documents senator, we saved many of them. And do you know right now there are fifteen hundred cubic feet of committee documents that have been available at various times to the United States Attorney, the FBI, the grand jury, Common Cause, the Democratic National Committee, and the Senate Select Committee. And we've been working with all of those committees and panels and making those documents available. So, the thing that did not happen, after the election was that we took all those documents and shredded them. We took them all, and put them all together and they're housed in one location right now, pretty much and they're there. And they were not shredded and they were not destroyed.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of Robert Odle.
Senator ERVIN. Well, in a normal course of events, a man who or organization which is proud of it's good deeds and wants some recorded in history, preserves documents doesn't it? Mr. ODLE. Yes sir. Senator ERVIN. And has no use for a shredder? Mr. ODLE. Well, um I don't know that I could agree with that. I for example, lets say I was preparing a document to a, for the budget committees review and analysis and in the course of preparing that document I made a lot of notes and then those notes went into the thing and I threw those notes away. Senator, in the middle of that campaign I would have not wanted those notes on the front page at the Washington Post, because that would have given away some of our campaign strategy. Senator ERVIN. Well, you could have locked them in a filing cabinet, couldn't you? Mr. ODLE. Waste paper? You could have. I've known a senate campaign that did that, they rented a warehouse and they stored all of their waste paper in the warehouse.... Senator ERVIN. But, you're not going to do anything with a record except throw it in the waste paper basket or put it in the shredder, why do you make it? Mr. ODLE. These were notes, I was talking about a case where I might have a, where I might be writing a memorandum or making up a something that I would be sending to the budget committee, and I would be having all these notes and taking things from the notes and putting them in and I throw the notes away. I'm talking about now about the waste paper, the basic purpose of the shredder senator was not to dispose of documents or records, it was to destroy dispose of waste paper. Senator ERVIN. And to destroy waste paper in such a matter that it's contents could not be resurrected? Mr. ODLE. Yes sir. Senator ERVIN. Now, um I believe you said on the 17th that G. Gordon Liddy came into the offices of the committee to re-elect the president and asked whether there was a shredder. Mr. ODLE. Yes. He asked where the large shredding machine was located, yes he did. Senator ERVIN. Was he the man ordinarily charged with the duty of disposing the waste paper? Mr. ODLE. No sir. (WS courtroom, laughs) Senator ERVIN. Well, you told him where the shredder was you say. Mr. ODLE. Yes sir. Senator ERVIN. And he took the shredder and he shredded some documents, didn't he? Mr. ODLE. Yes. Senator ERVIN. Do you know where the documents came from, that he shredded? Mr. ODLE. No. Senator ERVIN. Did he shred any documents that were under your, in your custody? Mr. ODLE. Absolutely not. Senator ERVIN. Now he was a man that was supposed to be the, in charge of intelligence operations wasn't he? Mr. ODLE. That is what it appears to be. Senator ERVIN. Do you think it's reasonable to draw the influence that the documents he was shredding were documents that related to intelligence activities. Mr. ODLE. I do now sir, today. I did not then.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee on Presidential Campaign Activities - Testimony of Robert Odle.
Senator SAM ERVIN (D-NC). Now who else was present at that time? Mr. ROBERT ODLE. Who else.... Senator ERVIN. Who else heard him ask for the shredder or saw him use the shredder? Mr. ODLE. I don't think anybody was there. Senator ERVIN. Were there any papers after that shredded by anybody else? Mr. ODLE. I didn't see nay shredding that day, besides that. Senator ERVIN. Yes. Subsequently, was Robert Mardian present at that time? Mr. ODLE. No sir, I believe he was in California. Senator ERVIN. And how long after this event was it before he returned from California? Mr. ODLE. I believe he returned the following week. Senator ERVIN. Do you know anything about any shredding of papers after his return? Mr. ODLE. No sir I do not, I have read in the newspapers as you have that he and one other individual shredded papers. I had no knowledge of that and I did not see them shred papers. And I, there was something called a referred to as a house cleaning. If that existed I did not see it. Senator ERVIN. Did you know nothing of any other papers being shredded after the break-in? Mr. ODLE. That's exactly correct. (MCU Senator Sam Ervin with arms folded, WS courtroom) Senator ERVIN. Do you know whether there was anybody kept a record in the committee for as to amounts of money that was dispersed to follow intelligence work? (MS Robert Odle seated at table with crowded courtroom BG) Mr. ODLE. No sir I don't. I assume the finance committee people whose job it was to keep records, kept records. I was not involved in that area. Senator ERVIN. Have you found, in your searches an assistant FBI, in the various committees you've mentioned, have you found any papers that which disclosed how much money was paid to G. Gordon Liddy? Mr. ODLE. No sir. Senator ERVIN. Or to Howard Hunt? Mr. ODLE. No sir I have not. Senator ERVIN. Is there any further questions? Senator Gurney.