Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 24, 1973 - Testimony of Gerald Alch
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 24, 1973 - Testimony of Gerald Alch
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 24, 1973 - Testimony of Gerald Alch United States Senate Caucus Room, Washington DC
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 24, 1973 - Testimony of Gerald Alch
Senator ERVIN. And I would not criticize you a bit if you recommended a plea of guilty because you had a client who was caught redhanded at the burglary and the defense was on very precarious grounds at best, and so if he did say that you urged him to plead guilty, I think it would be a compliment to your intelligence as a lawyer rather than a reflection on it. Mr. ALCH. With all due respect, I reject the compliment, for this reason, Senator: First of all, because he specifically said to you I never suggested that he enter a plea of guilty. The reason, when this proposition was put to me, or this offer was put to me by the Government, I practice this way, I do not-that is too important a decision for me to make. I simply take it back to the client and say: "Here it is; what do you say?" He said, "No." Senator ERVIN. Well, you never recommend to a client? Mr. ALCH. When I get an offer? Senator ERVIN. I will have to confess that I have recommended to many clients that they plead guilty and I felt like I was serving their cause the best. Mr. ALCH. I am not saying anything like that was improper. All I am saying, in this particular instance, Senator, I just brought it back to him and said, "Here is what is available to you." Senator ERVIN. You are not taking any offense at any possibility that McCord may have said that you recommended to him that he should plead guilty? Mr. ALCH. No, because he said just the opposite. Senator ERVIN. Yes, good; so we will have no controversy over that. So you are not falling out with him on that? Mr. ALCH. No.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 24, 1973 - Testimony of Gerald Alch
Senator ERVIN. Let us go to Executive clemency. You did attend a meeting with Mr. Bittman? Mr. ALCH. Yes, sir. Senator ERVIN. Now, Mr. Bittman was representing Hunt? Mr. ALCH. Yes, sir. Senator ERVIN. You knew that Hunt had been a consultant in the White House or the Executive Office? Mr. ALCH. I honestly was not just sure of what Mr. Hunt's position was. Senator ERVIN. You knew he had been working for the Committee To Re-Elect the President, didn't you? Mr. ALCH. That I did. Senator ERVIN. And you do not know what contacts were had between Mr. Hunt and any of his former associates in the Committee To Re-Elect the President or between his counsel and any of those people? Mr. ALCH. No, sir. Senator ERVIN. But you did have a discussion with Mr. Bittman in which Mr. Bittman mentioned Executive clemency, did you not? Mr. ALCH. Yes, sir, in the context that I described. Senator ERVIN. In other words, when Mr. Bittman was discussing with you the fact that his client, Mr. Hunt, might plead guilty or had determined to plead guilty, I do not remember which, you discussed with him, not Executive clemency, but what? Mr. ALCH. No, sir; I tried to make clear yesterday with Mr. Bittman where the words "Executive clemency" came up did not happen on January 8. It happened some time in late 1972 and when it happened, when I said to him just in a casual conversation, "What do you think our clients are liable to receive for a sentence if they are convicted?" Just like that, and that is when he said to me - and in not a very authoritative tone I might add - "You never can tell. Christmastime rolls around, Executive clemency might come into the picture. Forget it. The President won't go near it."
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 24, 1973 - Testimony of Gerald Alch
Senator ERVIN. You participated in the trial and heard the evidence. Mr. ALCH. Yes, sir. Senator ERVIN. And you know that it was proved on trial as shown on the trial or at least evidence tended to show that the notebook of Mr. Hunt which was introduced into evidence had the White House phone number on it, didn't you? Mr. ALCH. If it was, I certainly don't recall. Senator ERVIN. You don't recall it? Mr. ALCH. Because Mr. Hunt's local counsel - I don't recall. Senator ERVIN. Anyway when you asked Mr. Bittman what kind of sentences the clients might get if they were convicted he said, "Well, it might be Executive clemency," didn't he? Mr. ALCH. He didn't say it that way. Senator ERVIN. Well, he said Christmas was coming. Mr. ALCH. That is right. [Laughter.] Senator ERVIN. And he at least indicated that he thought parts of executive's hearts became kinder around Christmastime than any other season of the year. Mr. ALCH. Senator, let me say this. He did not respond in this type of way, he did not say, "Now, look, Christmas is coming, they are going to get Executive clemency." It wasn't that type of conversation. What he said to me was in sort of a theorizing way, "Well, just as Christmastime comes around there may be Executive clemency," I immediately responded as I told you yesterday that "There is no chance of that happening, in my opinion."
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 24, 1973 - Testimony of Gerald Alch
Senator ERVIN. You said, on page 16 of your statement: I had occasion in late 1972 during one of the pretrial meetings of defense lawyers in Washington, I had occasion to say to Mr. Bittman, "Bill, what do you think our clients will receive as a sentence should they be convicted?" Mr. Bittman responded in substance as if theorizing, "You can never tell. Christmastime rolls around and there could be Executive clemency." Mr. ALCH. Yes, sir. Those are his words, to the best of my recollection. Senator ERVIN. So I think that was sort of right to have an idea that Christmas had some relation to Mr. Bittman's remarks. Mr. ALCH. In the context of the way he uttered it. Senator ERVIN. Well, now, you agree you left that meeting and then you saw Mr. McCord. Later you discussed the question of executive privilege with Mr. McCord, didn't you? Mr. ALCH. I didn't discuss the question, I relayed to him the conversation I had with Mr. Bittman. Senator ERVIN. Yes, and you relayed the conversation in which Bittman had said in effect that you can never tell, Christmastime rolls around and there could be Executive clemency. Mr. ALCH. I did with a singular addition of my own. Senator ERVIN. Yes, and you said it was absurd to expect Executive clemency, the President wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole or something like that. Mr. ALCH. That is what I said. Senator ERVIN. And McCord agreed with you? Mr. ALCH. He did.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 24, 1973 - Testimony of Gerald Alch
Senator ERVIN. Now, you, on one occasion, told Mr. McCord that Mr. Bittman, rather Mr. Bittman told you in one of these meetings of the lawyers, that Mr. McCord was going to receive a message, a telephone call. Mir. ALCH. Yes, sir. Senator ERVIN. And didn't you ask Mr. Bittman what business other people had - you had been talking about the case, hadn't you? Mr. ALCH. At that particular point we had been talking about my client's apprehension that his codefendants were conspiring against him. Senator ERVIN. Anyway he told you - your client-somebody else was going to communicate by telephone with your client? Mr. ALCH. Yes, sir. Senator ERVIN. And it was a short time after that, according to the evidence, your client did receive a telephone call and had three conferences with Mr. Caulfield. Mr. ALCH. Not to my knowledge. Senator ERVIN. Well, the evidence shows it although you don't know it. Mr. ALCH. Yes. Senator ERVIN. But you conveyed the message which Mr. Bittman gave you about Mr. McCord going to receive a telephone call, didn't you? Mr. ALCH. I tried to tell my client everything.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 24, 1973 - Testimony of Gerald Alch
Senator ERVIN. Yes. Don't you think it is reasonable now, he got a call, and you told him in advance that he is going to get the call, and then he receives a call and had some negotiations, or conversations at least about executive privilege, you don't think Mr. McCord is liable because in his mind he associated those conversations he had pursuant to this telephone call with you? Can't you see where he would reasonably draw a deduction that the telephone call which resulted in this indicated that you knew something about Executive clemency? Mr. ALCH. No, for this reason. I again reiterate how close we were in our contact and in what we would tell each other. If he thought, and he has now labeled this as improper conduct on my part, the question I keep asking myself is that if he did make the surmise and conclude that I was engaged in improper conduct, this was before the trial began, or was it before the trial began or whenever it happened, why wouldn't the man come up to me and confront me with it? That is what I don't understand. Senator ERVIN. Well, you go and tell him that he is going to receive a phone call. Mr. ALCH. Yes, sir. Senator ERVIN. And he does receive a phone call. Mr. ALCH. Yes, sir. Senator ERVIN. And as a result of receiving a phone call, he has an offer of Executive clemency made to him. Mr. ALCH. Yes, sir. Senator ERVIN. And you say that it wasn't reasonable for him to infer from those facts that you knew about the offer of Executive clemency? Mr. ALCH. I say it was not reasonable for him to infer or assume and later allege that that was in any way the basis of improper conduct on my part. Senator ERVIN. Well, I don't infer it was, Mr. Alch. Mr. ALCH. What, sir? Senator ERVIN. I used to be a trial lawyer. I was always interested when I had a client, especially one who had no defense. I was always glad of the prospect of getting any kind of clemency. I do not see that it reflects on you. It might be a glory to your competence as a lawyer or to your judgment as a counsel to try to do so. It is no reflection on you. It is to your credit. Mr. ALCH. No, sir. I did not know about it. If any type of legitimate, legal offer came from the Government that would benefit my client, I would put it to him. I certainly would not keep it from him.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 24, 1973 - Testimony of Gerald Alch
Senator ERVIN. Just one question about the book. The Scriptures say, "Much study is a weariness to the flesh and of making books there is no end." It seems that everybody who gets into jail today wants to write a book about it. When Mr. McCord talked to Mr. Johnson at the time about writing a book, he was out of a job, was he not? Mr. ALCH. Not to my knowledge. Senator ERVIN. You do not know that your client was out of a job? Mr. ALCH. No, sir, he had electronic - not electronic - surveillance McCord Associates. Senator ERVIN. Do you know that he had been fired by the Committee To Re-Elect the President? Mr. ALCH. Yes, sir, but he also told me that he had income from McCord Associates. I would call him sometimes at the office. Senator ERVIN. But notwithstanding the fact that he was paying your fee, you did not suspect he might be in penurious circumstances? Mr. ALCH. That was a possibility. Senator ERVIN. I might say if Mr. McCord wanted to write a book about Watergate, he could make A. Conan Doyle turn green with envy.