MLK Assassination Hearings - Nov 9, 1978
MLK Assassination Hearings - Nov 9, 1978
MLK Assassination Hearings - Nov 9, 1978 Testimony of Alexander Eist, Retired detective Chief Inspector, Metropolitan Police Force, London, England
MLK Assassination Hearings - Nov 9, 1978
Samuel Devine (R- Ohio).Your discharge is from Scotland Yard for medical reasons? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. I did yes sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). I believe the medical reasons had to do with a thyroid involvement that has caused some eye protrusion. Is that accurate? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Absolutely. Yes sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). But you were honorably discharged? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Absolutely. Yes sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Now further just a moment ago in answering counsel s question you said Mr. Ray talked to you about going to Africa and I think the quote was kill some more. Is that accurate? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Yes sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Kill some more? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Yes sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio).In another area Inspector, when did you first become aware that an American Congressional Committee had an interest in James Earl Ray? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. In the news media in Great Britain, it had been published that James Earl Ray or his associate was alleging the FBI were crocked and they framed him. This was the first that I knew of it. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio).That was after this committee was created. Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. I assume so sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). In January of 1977? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Yes Sir Samuel Devine (R- Ohio).That was about the time that you became aware of our interests. Is that correct? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Yes sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). I would ask you whether you knew of Major & Mrs. David and Connie Mourner. Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Meaunier Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). How do you spell that? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. M-E-A-U-N-I-E-R Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Who are they? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Major s is an air force major sir, who s stationed in Great Britain. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). And where did you run into them Inspector? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Well they came into my public house sir. I first met them when I took this place over about two years ago. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). About two years ago. When they told you of the new American investigation, what was your reaction? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Well sir that was the first that I knew of it when I saw it in the media about the framing by the FBI. Of Course naturally I had some interest because I saw the name Earl Ray and I had had dealings with him. Of course I was telling these two friends of mine and they continually coerced me into telling the FBI what I knew; because they were impressing on me how important it was to their country. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). They suggested that you notify the FBI and the American authorities? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. They did, yes. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). What was your response to that? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. I gave it some thought sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). I beg your pardon. Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. I gave it some thought and I decided not really at that time but after a while that it is the proper thing to do to assist the authorities if I could against the allegations of framing. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Did you suggest to them that the American Authorities already knew of your relationship with Ray? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Yes I think I did sir. I was under the impression that they already knew the situation as I m explaining it this morning.
MLK Assassination Hearings - Nov 9, 1978
Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Well what made you think the American authorities were aware? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Well because when this was all being taken care of in 1968, there were I think three at least two members but I think three members of the FBI who were aided with Mr. Butler in the security of Earl Ray. And at that time I was telling them of the conversations that I was having in the cell. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Well had you informed your superiors of the comments made back in1968? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Yes sir I did. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Had you done so at that time? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Yes sir. I was going to continue to inform the informants at that time of the conversations I was having. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio).To who did you make the reports? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. To Mr. Butler sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). That s your Chief Inspector? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. That was the Chief Superintendent yes. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). And anyone else? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. And to the FBI. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Do you know who specifically in the FBI? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. There was a man called Earl MacRae. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Mcray M-C-R-A-Y Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. I believe it was M-C-R-A-E sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio).Were these reports written or orally given? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Both sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Both. Do you know whether your superiors have passed this information over to the American authorities? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. It is my belief that Mr. Butler did in actual fact sir. Because we had a conversation on one occasion where both the FBI and Mr. Butler told me that any conversations I was having with Earl Ray was not valid as far as evidential value is concerned in the United States.
MLK Assassination Hearings - Nov 9, 1978
Samuel Devine (R- Ohio) Why did you wait until June of this year to contact the authorities? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. You mean after I first knew about the FBI, the allegations they ve been framed. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). What happened as a result of your contact? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. With the FBI sir. Two gentlemen came to see me. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Two FBI men? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Yes Sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Alright could you identify them? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. I m afraid I can t sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). To refresh your recollection, would it be Agent Dennis Dickson and Robert Kinne. Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. That s right yes sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Those were the FBI Agents involved and the interview was conducted in June 1978. Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Yes sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). What was the substance of the conversation Mr. Eist that you had with the gentlemen at that meeting? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Exactly the same as I m giving you this morning sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Would you recite it again exactly what you told them? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Yes I told them. First of said, my interest in the situation was that of FBI framing as far as Earl Ray was concerned. This was totally untrue because of the very great security arrangements they made to get Mr. Ray back to this country safely. And I told them of the conversations I had in the cell with him. As I say what I mentioned to the committee this morning. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). You told them about describing his escape from the Missouri State Penitentiary. Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Yes sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). And on many occasions he admitted he had shot Dr. King? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. No you see he never really; Ray never really told me he pulled the trigger or anything like that. But I told them that he had in fact stated to me that he had thrown the gun away.
MLK Assassination Hearings - Nov 9, 1978
Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Have you ever read any books or articles about James Earl Ray or Dr. King s assassination? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Never sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Subsequent to that interview, were you contacted by members or the staff of this committee? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. I was indeed, yes sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). And as a result of that contact on August 4th 1970, did you meet with staff members of this committee and allow them to take an interview you? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. I did. Yes Sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Where the statements made by you during the course of that interview truthful and accurate? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Yes sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Tell me about your appearance here this morning. Is this in response to a subpoena or are you here voluntarily? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. I m here voluntarily sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). After giving your statement to the committee investigators Mr. Evans specifically, did you learn that it had been read in its entirety into the committee s record in August of this past year? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. I did. Yes Sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Did you know that there was a strong possibility that this statement would be made public in the United States? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. I did. Yes Sir. Yes. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Did you have any concern that your statement would be made public and might be challenged? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. I didn t have any concern over it sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). You weren t concerned about that? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. No sir.
MLK Assassination Hearings - Nov 9, 1978
Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Did you later learn that James Earl Ray s attorney made serious charges concerning your honesty and integrity after your statement was read into the record? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Very much so sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Did you that that attorney publically charged that you were dismissed from the Metropolitan Police Force in London in disgrace under charges of theft and perjury? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. I did learn that. Yes sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Were you so dismissed? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. No sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Where you dismissed from the Metropolitan Police Force for any reason whatsoever? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. No sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Did you in fact retire from the Metropolitan Police Force under honorable conditions for medical reasons? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. I did yes sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Where you as Mr. Lane claimed investigated by 810 of the internal police branch of the corruption department of Scotland Yard? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Well 810 is a department that deals with complaints of all types and kinds. I was an active police officer and as such we do get complaints. And these complaints, of course, would have been investigated by the 810 department. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Was this investigation prior to or after your retirement? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Prior to Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Where you aware that Lane charged you were placed on trial for accepting bribes and involvement in jewel robberies throughout London? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. I m aware of that yes sir. Samuel Devine (R- Ohio). Where you in fact placed on trial for those charges? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. I was placed on trial for being concerned in a case.
MLK Assassination Hearings - Nov 9, 1978
Lunsford Preyer (D- North Carolina). What area would that be and who were the people involved in it? I gather he never said anything to you about involvement with any other person other than his brother? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. That is so yes sir. Lunsford Preyer (D- North Carolina). On the question of racism as a motive, you testified as I understand it that he hated blacks. Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Yes sir. Lunsford Preyer (D- North Carolina). But you infer that from general statements he s made. He made no specific statement to you to the affect that all blacks should be killed or I killed because I hated blacks. Nothing like that? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. That s a very difficult question to answer sir. But that was the distinct impression that I drew from the many and varied conversations that I with him. Lunsford Preyer (D- North Carolina). You mentioned that he did not ever tell you directly that he shot Dr. King? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. That s right sir, yes. Lunsford Preyer (D- North Carolina). But that you could infer that he shot Dr. King from the statements he made such as he threw the riffle away Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Yes sir Lunsford Preyer (D- North Carolina). Are you inferring that he shot Dr. King because he was a racist based on the remarks he made? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. That would be my impression yes sir. Lunsford Preyer (D- North Carolina). There was nothing specific connected with racial statements and the shooting itself? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Nothing specific no sir. Lunsford Preyer (D- North Carolina). He did make some statements dealing with other possible motives I gather that he talked in terms of he would make a lot of money out of it. Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Yes sir. Lunsford Preyer (D- North Carolina). But that was in terms of making money from publicity not anyone giving him money to do it. Is that right? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. That s right. Yes sir Lunsford Preyer (D- North Carolina). Just one other sort of frivolous question I guess. You say the magazines he wanted were yachting magazines? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. That was on the first day. Yes sir Lunsford Preyer (D- North Carolina). What sorts of yachting magazines did he want? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. It bewildered me to in actual fact there sir. He just wanted magazines on yachts. He was a strange character all together sir. You know. Lunsford Preyer (D- North Carolina). What sort of yachting magazines did you get him? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. I got him magazines with pictures of yachts on them sir. I don t know too much about yachting magazines myself. Lunsford Preyer (D- North Carolina). Thank you Mr. Eist.
MLK Assassination Hearings - Nov 9, 1978
Thomas Downing (D- Virginia). The time of the gentlemen has expired. The gentleman from Connecticut Mr. Stewart McKinney. Stewart McKinney (R- Connecticut). Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. Eist did you mention that Mr. Ray seemed to feel that he was going to make a great deal of money? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Yes sir. Stewart McKinney (R- Connecticut). Exactly how many times did he mention making money to you? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. I would think at least two or three conversations that this came into it sir. Stewart McKinney (R- Connecticut). Did he actually in these statements come out and say that the only thing that he would possibly ever be convicted of was conspiracy. How did he put that? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Yes sir. I distinctly remember that. You see he used to ramble on when he did start talking. He rambled on quite a lot you know. And he suddenly came up with this out of the blue one day. He said They ll only be able to nail me for conspiracy. And that s how this situation with the gun arrived. Because he said I ll only get 1 to 10 or 1 to 12 this is the way he was talking. You see he suddenly appeared to me to become some sort of legal expert. This was halfway through his extradition period. Stewart McKinney (R- Connecticut). I m sure in England you have your jailhouse lawyers too don t you? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Barrack room lawyers, we call them sir. Stewart McKinney (R- Connecticut). You call them what? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. Barrack Room Lawyers. Stewart McKinney (R- Connecticut). Barrack Room Lawyers. Did he at any time he was talking about conspiracy ever mention any other individuals? Alexander Eist, Retired Chief Inspector. No he didn t sir and this is what I d like to impress on you sir. He did ramble so much that I am convinced had there been anyone else involved it would have come through the conversations. Stewart McKinney (R- Connecticut). Did he ever in his conversations about conspiracy or his conversations? Abrupt End of Tape