Hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committe on the Nomination of Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court
Hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committe on the Nomination of Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court
Hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committe on the Nomination of Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court - this is edited October 13, 1991. Commitee hearing after the Anita Hill charges of sexual harassment. Panel of supporters of University of Oklahoma Law Professor Anita Hill give testimony. Ms. Ellen Wells, friend of Professor Hill, Mr. John William Carr, Judge Susan Hoerchner, fellow classmate at Yale Law School, and Professor Joel Paul, American University law professor.
Hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committe on the Nomination of Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court
Senator Joseph Biden (D - Delaware). Right. Now, Mr. Paul, your corroborating that you were told about this - Professor Hill's displeasure with her boss and his sexual advances, or let me not characterize - what did she say to you? Did she use the term that she was harassed or sexual advances or uncomfortable? What was the term that she used to you when you asked her why she left EEOC? Joel Paul. Senator, the specific terms that I recall were, that she said that she was sexually harassed by her supervisor at the EEOC. Senator Joseph Biden (D - Delaware). Now, who is Susan Duncan that you refer to? Joel Paul. Susan Dunham, D-U-N-H-A-M-- Senator Joseph Biden (D - Delaware). I am sorry. Joel Paul. - is the head of the legal methods program at our law school, Washington College of Law. Senator Joseph Biden (D - Delaware). So she teaches at law school as well? Joel Paul. Yes, she does. She teaches courses on legal methods and she also runs the legal methods program. Senator Joseph Biden (D - Delaware). Why would you go from the lunch table to the - I assume that's where you were told this - Joel Paul. Susan's office at the time was adjacent to mine. Susan had a practice prior to working on the faculty which involved employment discrimination cases. I was shocked and disturbed by what Professor Hill had told me. I did not know anything about that area of the law, as I have testified. My area of expertise is business law, and corporate law. So I went to Susan to sort of ask her, you know, what could have been done? Why wasn't any recourse taken, and that was how we had this conversation.
Hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committe on the Nomination of Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court
Senator Joseph Biden (D - Delaware). Were you going to her in the expectation or hope that there might still be recourse that could be taken? Were you thinking of going back and advising - Joel Paul. No, Senator, no. Senator Joseph Biden (D - Delaware). Now, you say, well, I am still curious. If you were not doing it for that reason, to see if there was still a cause of action to go back and try to convince Professor Hill to do something, did it surprise you that she - I mean why - what was the motivation of going to your fellow colleague? Joel Paul. My motivation was to try to understand better the position that women may be in, in that situation. It was simply a matter of academic - Senator Joseph Biden (D - Delaware). What were you told - Joel Paul. --curiosity. Senator Joseph Biden (D - Delaware). What were you told? Joel Paul. I am sorry? Senator Joseph Biden (D - Delaware). What were you told by your colleague as to why women stay in that situation, or did she volunteer anything? Joel Paul. Ms. Dunham said - and this is all that I really can say that I recall on my own - is that she said that this was a case of the fox guarding the hen-house. That portion of the conversation I can recall on my own. I believe Ms. Dunham has had a conversation with the Judiciary Committee staff, but I don't recall.
Hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committe on the Nomination of Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court
Senator Joseph Biden (D - Delaware). She has. I just want to make - the last question. I realize my 15 minutes are up. Judge, I would like to ask you, you read a letter from your classmates at the law school. Now, were they classmates who were from the same graduating class, or were they people who were contemporaneously at Yale Law School at the time that Professor Hill was at Yale Law School? Do you know? Judge Susan Hoerchner. I believe that they were from the same graduating class. Senator Joseph Biden (D - Delaware). How many were in your graduating class, do you recall, roughly? Judge Susan Hoerchner. I believe 131 people graduated and I am not sure whether or not that included people who were getting degrees other than the J.D. Senator Joseph Biden (D - Delaware). Now, the last question, did anyone - how did this letter materialize? Did you circulate this letter? Judge Susan Hoerchner. No. Due to the last-minute nature of these proceedings, I have not at all been involved in the letter. Senator Joseph Biden (D - Delaware). How did it come to be placed in your hand then? Judge Susan Hoerchner. When I came to the hearings, Friday, I saw a copy of it. Senator Joseph Biden (D - Delaware). Who gave you the letter? Judge Susan Hoerchner. I think it - my attorney, Ron Allen, had a copy and he passed it over. Senator Joseph Biden (D - Delaware). Judge, help me out here. Do you know where the devil the letter came from? That's what I am trying to find out. Judge Susan Hoerchner. I am not quite sure - Senator Joseph Biden (D - Delaware). Fair enough. Judge Susan Hoerchner. - what you are asking. Senator Joseph Biden (D - Delaware). All right, my time is up.
Hearing of the Senate Judiciary Committe on the Nomination of Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court
Senator Strom Thurmond (R - South Carolina). Mr. Chairman, I yield to Senator Specter, who will examine the witnesses supporting Anita Hill? Senator Arlen Specter (R - Pennsylvania). Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I begin today with a statement that I made before that I have been asked to raise the questions by Senator Thurmond. But I do so in the context of I do not believe this is an adversarial proceeding. I do not represent anyone except Pennsylvania, and what we are trying to do here is to find out what the facts are.