Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 18, 1973 - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord)
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 18, 1973 - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord)
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 18, 1973 - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 18, 1973 - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord)
I further advised Caulfield that I believed that the Government had lied in denying electronic interception of my phone calls from my residence since June 17, 1972. And that I believed that the administration had also tapped the phones of the other defendants during that time. I mentioned two specific calls of mine which I had made during September and early October 1972 which I was certain had been intercepted by the Government and yet the Government had blithely denied any such tapping. These were my words to Mr. Caulfield. I compared this denial to the denial that the Government had made in the Ellsberg case, in which for months the Government had denied any such impermissible interception of the calls, and yet in the summer of 1972 had finally been forced to admit them when the judge ordered, by court order, a search of about a dozen Government agencies and calls intercepted were then disclosed. I might state separate from the record at this point, that as I have previously stated, I had no knowledge whatever of any activity monitoring or what have you, of Mr. Ellsberg's calls as have previously come out, as have earlier come out in the newspapers in the past few days. It is purely coincidence that I happen to mention the Ellsberg case at that time, I had been following the case in the papers and I knew the history of the case.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 18, 1973 - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord)
To go on with the statement: I stated that if we were going to get a fiction of a fair trial, through perjured testimony to begin with, and then for the Government to lie about illegal telephone interceptions that the trial ought to be kicked out and we start all over again, this time with all of those involved as defendants. At least in this way, some would not be more equal than others" before the bar of justice and we would get a fair trial.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 18, 1973 - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord)
The executive clemency offer was made two or three times during this meeting, as I recall and I repeated each time that I would not even discuss it, nor discuss pleading guilty which I had been asked to do in the first telephone call received on the night of January 8th, from Caulfield's friend, whose identity I do not know. I told him, referring to Mr. Caulfield that I was going to renew the motion on disclosure of government wiretapping of our telephones. Caulfield ended the conversation by stating that he would call me the next day about a meeting that same afternoon, Saturday January 13, and that if I did not hear from him, he would want to talk with me by telephone on the evening of Monday January 15, 1973. I did not hear from Caulfield on Saturday, but on Sunday afternoon he called and asked to meet me that afternoon about an hour later, at the same location on George Washington Parkway. He stated that there was no objection to renewing the motion on discovery of government wiretapping and if that failed, that I would receive executive clemency after ten to eleven months. I told him that I had not asked anyone's permission to file the motion. He went on to say that quote "the President's ability to govern is at stake, another Teapot Dome scandal is possible and the government may fall. Everybody else is on track but you. You are not following the game plan. Get closer to your attorney. You seem to be pursuing your own course of action. Don't talk if called before the Grand Jury, keep silent, and do the same if called before a congressional committee." I might add that two congressional committees had prior to that date, been conducting investigations into this case, I believe it was the Patman committee and Senator Kennedy's, Senator Patman and Senator Kennedy's committees.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 18, 1973 - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord)
My response was that I felt a massive injustice was being done, that I was different from the others, that I was going to fight the fix case and I had no intention of either pleading guilty, taking executive clemency or agreeing to remain silent. He repeated the statement that the government would have difficulty in continuing to be able to stand. I responded that they do have a problem, but that I had a problem with a massive injustice of the whole trial being a sham and that I would fight it every way I know. I should make a correction in the sentence that I just read, when I say the whole trial being a sham, because I did not at that point in time make any reference at any time to Judge Sirica, made just the contrary of his being anything but an honest and a dedicated judge and I don't want the sentence to be misread. He asked for, talking about Caulfield asked for a commitment that I would remain silent and I responded I would make none. I gave him a memorandum on the dates of the two calls of mine in September 1972 and October 1972 that I was sure had been intercepted and said that I believed the government had lied about them. He said he would check and see if in fact the government had done so.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 18, 1973 - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord)
On Monday night, January 15, 1973 Caulfied called me again at the phone booth at Route 355 near my residence. I informed him that I had no desire to talk further, that if the White House had any intension of playing the game straight and giving us as semblance of a fair trial, they would check into the perjury charge of mine against Magruder and into the existence of the two intercepted calls previously referred to and I hung up. On Tuesday morning, the next morning, about 7:30 Mr. Caulfield called my residence, but I had already left for court. On Tuesday evening, Caulfield called and asked me again to meet with him and I responded not until after they had something to talk about on the perjured testimony and intercepted calls. He said words to the effect "give us a week" and a meeting was subsequently arranged on January 25, 1973 when he said he would have something to talk about.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 18, 1973 - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord)
About 10:00 A.M. on Thursday January 25, 1973 in meeting lasting about 12:30 A.M., correction 12:30 P.M. We drove in his car toward Warrington, Virginia and returned that is we drove there and returned. And a conversation ensued which repeated the offers of executive clemency and financial support while in prison and re-habilitation later. I refused to discuss it. He stated that I was "fouling up the game plan" and I made a few comments about the game plan. He stated that "they" had found no record of the interception of the two calls I had referred to and said that perhaps it could wait until the appeals. He asked what my plans were regarding talking publicly and I said that I planned to do so when I said I was ready. That I had discussed it with my wife and she said that I should do what I felt I must, and not to worry about the family. I advised Jack that my children were now grown and could understand what I had to do when the disclosures came out. He responded by saying "you know that if the administration gets its back to the wall, it will have to take steps to defend itself." I took that as a personal threat and I told him in my response that I had a good life, my will was made out, I had thought through the risks, would take them when I was ready. He said that if I had to go off to jail that the administration would help with the bail premiums. I advised him that it was not a bail premium, but a hundred thousand dollars straight cash. And if that was a problem I would have to worry about through family and friends. On the night before sentencing, Jack called me and said that the Administration would provide the hundred thousand in cash if I could tell them how to get it funded through an intermediary. I said if I we ever needed it I would let him know. I never contacted him thereafter, neither have I heard from him. And that completes the statement.
Watergate Hearings: Senate Select Committee Hearings on Presidential Campaign Activities, May 18, 1973 - Testimony of James McCord (Jim McCord)
Samuel Dash, attorney. I have one further question. James McCord. I will answer any question. Samuel Dash, attorney. Have you ever made that statement before this select committee, other than when you appeared before Minority counsel and myself a couple of days ago. But, have you ever made that statement before this committee, before the Grand Jury or before any investigating body until this time? James McCord. No sir. Samuel Dash, attorney. Could you please state to the committee why when you were making statements at earlier times before this committee, before the Grand Jury and other inquiring bodies you failed to disclose that information? James McCord. I'd be glad to. To take the Grand Jury, and get that one out of the way, when I appeared before the Grand Jury I told them, they inquired about political pressure. I raised the pressure that had been put to me by the Hunts. And told them as well that there was a personal friend who was involved also in political pressure against me, that personally at that point in time it was very painful thing to go into it, that I would be glad to do it at a later time and I hoped that they would defer that question till subsequent questioning and I would be glad to answer it. They said they would do so. I believe when I appeared before the Executive Committee here on March 28th, that your senators asked me the same question, and that I said "yes, there had been political pressure applied to me". That one such pressure had been by a government, one of your Senators asked me if it were by a government employee, I think Senator Montoya and I responded "yes." And he asked if it were anyone with the White House and I said "no". He asked if it were from the Department of Justice and I said "no". It was clear, I think to the Committee that I would like to able to answer that question at a later time. The reason for the delay is that I wanted to be as accurate as I could about the information and get it all together because it involved the President of the United States, in my opinion. And it was a very serious matter and I wanted to be very careful about it and accurate. Samuel Dash, attorney. I have no further questions Mr. Chairman.