Senate FOIA Hearing
Senate Intelligence Committee Hearing on the Intelligence Reform Act
Chairman of Senate Intelligence Committee Barry Goldwater (R-AZ) and U.S. Senator John H. Chafee (R-RI) sitting at dais, Dirksen Building, Room 6226, for Senate Intelligence Committee Hearing on Intelligence Reform Act of 1981; K. Prescott Low, representing the American Newspaper Publishers Association, giving statement off-camera. Low sitting with Robert Lewis, representing Society of Professional Journalists, and attorney Bruce Sanford. Three adult Caucasian male reporters standing, taking notes; Low continuing statement to Intelligence Committee. Predominately male adult Caucasian audience at hearing; Low concludes statement, agrees to answer any questions after Lewis gives statement.
Senate Intelligence Committee Hearing on the Intelligence Reform Act
Chairman of the Intelligence Committee Barry Goldwater (R-AZ) sitting at dais, Dirksen Building, Room 6226, during Senate Intelligence Committee Hearing on the Intelligence Reform Act; U.S. Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-NY) gets out of his seat. Robert Lewis of the Society of Professional Journalists introduces himself to Committee, gives statement; K. Prescott Low of the American Newspaper Publishers Association, and attorney Bruce Sanford sitting at witness table. Senators Goldwater and John H. Chafee (R-RI) sitting at dais with staffers; Lewis continuing statement. Adult Caucasian male and female audience listening to Lewis' statement. Elderly adult Caucasian man and woman watching hearing. Two adult Caucasian male reporters standing in room, taking notes.
Senate Intelligence Committee Hearing on the Intelligence Reform Act
Dirksen Building, Room 6226 with the Great Seal of the United States of America hanging on wall; Robert Lewis of the American Newspaper Publishers Association continuing to give off-screen statement at Senate Intelligence Committee Hearing on the Intelligence Reform Act of 1981; U.S. Senators Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-N.Y.), John H. Chafee (R-R.I.), and David Durenberger (R-MN) seated at dais with middle-aged adult Caucasian male staffers.
Senate Intelligence Committee Hearing on the Intelligence Reform Act
U.S. Senator John Chafee (R-R.I.) speaking in Dirksen Building, Room 6226, at Senate Intelligence Committee Hearing on the Intelligence Reform Act of 1981: "... what we are involved in here is always trying to obtain this balance. I would point out that the Nation went along for some 190 years without the Freedom of Information Act, so it's not something that's written in concrete into our Constitution in that it constitutes one of the very basis of the liberties that we have. The difficulty is the contradiction of having an organization which by its very nature is meant to be secret, and having it available through the Freedom of Information Act for disclosure of that information. Now, you have listened to the testimony that the generals gave here earlier, not just on the chilling effect, which couldn't be quantified. That was not facts. That you were dealing with facts. I don't take that as quite an accurate statement, to just dismiss what they testified to. These were facts which they stated, and facts which were given by Mr. Carlucci a year ago in testifying before the House. He said sources were cut off. Now, if we are going to have Intelligence Committees, as we have, greatly strengthened, that we did not have in the past, it seems to me that the protection for the people that you are discussing is provided for. So, Mr. Chairman, I found the information and the testimony of these gentlemen helpful but not persuasive."
Senate Intelligence Committee Hearing on the Intelligence Reform Act
Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Barry Goldwater (R-AZ) in Dirksen Building, Room 6226 at Senate Intelligence Committee Hearing on the Intelligence Reform Act of 1981: "Senator Moynihan?" Sen. David Durenberger (R-MN) sitting at dais. Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-NY) speaks: "Maybe I could take a tangential course because it seems to me that Mr. Low on behalf of the Newspaper Publishers Association has raised an important point, which is that all these events take place in a larger context, what we do and do not do with our statute. As Sen. Chafee knows, the bill he has introduced is, as he said very generously, virtually the same as the bill a group of us introduced last year, him included. But the administrations have changed and certain attitudes have changed. The public information office has been closed down. And certain kinds of briefing, which I don't think should have been background briefings-- which I think should have been on the record briefings, but I think there's too much of that-- have been stopped. The atmosphere of cooperating with inquiry, I am sorry to have to tell you, is not what it ought to be. Now, for the past two days, as the chairman knows, and I don't want to implicate the chairman in this at all, we have been urgently trying to find out whether or not the Director of the CIA has been involved in activities that would make him unfit to hold this office. We didn't raise it. We didn't call for the resignation of Mr. Hugel. We certainly would never have called for his appointment. But he resigned. And now we have been given the job of looking into this. One member of this committee, sir, on my side has already in effect called for the resignation of Mr. Casey. And we call the White House, and we call the White House, and we call the White House, and nobody answers. I have been here, the administration has been here since January, and never once called the Attorney General. I called the Attorney General and I have called the Attorney General. He does not answer. I do not know whether he is afraid to talk with me or doesn't know who I am or doesn't know what. goes on up here or doesn't think it matters. It damn well does matter. And I am going to speak on the floor later on, and I'm going to say very clearly if this administration wants Mr. Casey to stay in office, they better start answering the phone calls of Mr. Blake and Dr. Shulsky. If they are going to cover up, they are going to lose themselves a Director of CIA right fast. I have not said a word about this until now. I have been absolutely silent. But it is outrageous, Mr. Chairman. They will not answer our phones, as if they don't matter. They will find out that it matters a very great deal what they do to this committee. They should know."
Senate Intelligence Committee Hearing on the Intelligence Reform Act
U.S. Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-NY) continuing remarks in Dirksen Building, Room 6226, at Senate Intelligence Committee Hearing on the Intelligence Reform Act of 1981: "I would have been much less sympathetic to your view, Mr. Low, because it's a pretty open country that lets Romanians write letters to their intelligence agency and say give us everything you know about satellites or cryptography, as far the compartmentalization. Last year, I put the National Intelligence Estimates into the Congressional Record. Not the one sent to this body; they hadn't gotten to this body yet. But I put in the version that appeared in the New York Times, and the corrected version that appeared in the Washington Post, then the still further corrected version in the Los Angeles Times, then the New York Times saying they all have it wrong. You know, we are not exactly an impermeable tissue, a membrane. Still, this administration is taking a very curious view to what the public needs to know, and even what the Congress needs to know. If they aren't even going to help us establish the fact that the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency should not resign, then the result will be he will resign. And they had better learn that there is such a thing as openness in government, or they are not going to succeed very much in their purposes. And I think in this context, what you had to say, impresses me in a way it might not have done a year ago. Thank you for your testimony. We have to go and vote, Mr. Chairman." Sen. Barry Goldwater (R-AZ) replies: "I'm going to miss this vote because..." Sen. Moynihan, getting up to leave, interjects: "Because you don't want to be committed on whether the minimum payment should be made to all those poor people in Arizona, or you want to carry on? I know where you heart is. I will say you're present, Barry Goldwater." Sen. Goldwater replies as Sen. Moynihan leaves the room: "I was just going to tell you, Mr. Casey is out of town. If you want his phone number I can give it to you." Adult Caucasian male and female audience in the room; adult Caucasian male reporters standing by wall.
Senate Intelligence Committee Hearing on the Intelligence Reform Act
Committee Chairman U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater (R-AZ) in Dirksen Building, Room 6226, during Senate Intelligence Committee Hearing on Intelligence Reform Act of 1981: "I think your statement was very good. It presents a side of this question that's a real problem to us. How far do we go to protect our intelligence gathering and maintain what you gentlemen would consider freedom of the press? And I want to assure you that in the preparing of this legislation for floor consideration that we will give your stand every consideration. I've been working very closely with the AMPA for the last eight months. It's time to get the American telephone and telegram to come around, and I think we've got a partial agreement. And if you can you do that good with us, you have nothing to kick about. Thank you very much for coming, gentlemen. Now let's get back on schedule. Mr. Mark Lynch and Mr. Allan Adler of the American Civil Liberties Union." Both men enter room, take seats vacated by K. Prescott Low of American Newspaper Publishers Association, Robert Lewis of the Society of Professional Journalists, and attorney Bruce Sanford. Adult Caucasian men and women seated behind witnesses; adult male Caucasian reporters standing next to wall, police officer standing by door. Sen. Goldwater: "Gentlemen, you may proceed as you care. If you have prepared statements, we can put those in the record or in the brief. You're the boss, you go ahead." Lynch begins statement: "My name is Mark Lynch. I am a staff attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union. Appearing with me is Mr. Allan Adler, also an ACLU attorney. We have a prepared statement and some supporting materials which we would like to be made part of the record. However, I think that the best way for me to proceed would be to respond to what I think are the three essential points made by Admiral Inman. Before I do that, let me say that I am appearing on behalf of the American Civil Liberties Union, which is a nationwide membership organization devoted to the protection of the Bill of Rights..."